More Trek Novel Reprints!

[Therin of Andor]

More and more people are moving to eBooks and when they buy said eBooks and find them poorly formatted, they may... think it is poorly written.

Every day I encounter websites that are extremely poorly designed. That annoying fact doesn't make me assume the text is poorly written. While the websites might work beautifully on the machine they were created on, and others exactly like them, with all the same customized default settings, they may well look awful on any other PC or Mac. Photos annoyingly overlap blocks of text, required fonts don't work, colours of backgrounds clash with colours of text, someone has uploaded a raw Word document and unusual characters get replaced by totally wrong substitute characters, the site refuses to print out onto A4 paper unless landscaped, etc.

One of my free blogs on Edublogs has now gone through four different free templates in my attempt to find an attractive/functional one that looks reasonable on both my iMac and Macbook Pro, plus my widescreen monitor of my PC at work, plus the three models of PCs my students use at school, plus the interactive white board in the library.

I'm wondering if some of the complaints about eBooks isn't to do with the many brands of eBook reader being used out there. It's still early days yet. Compatibility problems haven't been resolved for the Internet and that's been around since - what? - the early 90s!

I've downloaded about four eBooks over the years. The first few had bizarrely stretched and pixellated "covers", but I was assured that friends didn't have the same problem, so it was a compatibility problem with the computer I was using to display the eBook.

in this case, the publisher dropped the ball and the current staff are a waste of space.

More likely, there is no allocated budget for that staff member to squeeze any more blood from the stone - until the next budget.

 

[Christopher]

Because there was not a contractual requirement for manuscripts to be submitted on disk until the early 90s.

There still isn't. The contract just says "content and form satisfactory to the publisher." These days we're certainly expected to submit our work electronically (though these days it's usually as e-mailed attachments rather than disks), but that's not actually specified in the contracts, not Simon & Schuster Trek contracts, anyway.

 

[JWolf]

The formatting is not really an issue. What is an issue is all the textual issues. Most errors can be found in a once through read. But to really do it 100%, the staff would have to A/B compare the eBook to the source and then there would not be any errors not in the source if any at all. But when I made the list of errors for Seize the Fire, they were found on a once through normal read not looking for them.

I am not blaming the authors for the errors. I am blaming the staff at S&S. I know the budget is tight. But a once through read should catch most errors. It seems that whatever the process to convert to eBook is not working well.

I could take an original Word document and have the eBooks made from that without any errors not in the original Word file. I do not see why S&S cannot do the same thing. But if they have to scan/OCR, then a read through should be done to find any errors. But I think the staff are just converting and saying, "Ok, it's done" without a read through. This introduces errors and makes things look bad and I would not doubt there are some that will blame the author.

I know the authors are not the ones who make the eBooks, but your names are on these works. I do feel it would be in your best interest to ask your editor about it and try to get things sorted so the eBooks come out without added errors. The staff making these mistakes do so in your name and it's your name readers see, not the eBook staff's.

 

[Christopher]

But a once through read should catch most errors.

Jobs always seem simpler to people who don't actually have to do them. Books go through multiple read-throughs by their authors, editors, copyeditors, proofreaders, etc., and errors still slip through. Indeed, there are usually new errors introduced in the process.

 

[Greg Cox]

I know the authors are not the ones who make the eBooks, but your names are on these works. I do feel it would be in your best interest to ask your editor about it and try to get things sorted so the eBooks come out without added errors. The staff making these mistakes do so in your name and it's your name readers see, not the eBook staff's.

Hopefully, as time goes by and ebooks become a bigger deal, and not just a new experiment, publishers will pay more attention to them. And maybe hire more people to handle their production.

Certainly, nobody wants sloppy-looking books--which is why I have the page proofs for a June book sitting downstairs waiting to be proofread the old-fashioned way . . . with paper and pencil!

 

[JWolf]

But a once through read should catch most errors.

Jobs always seem simpler to people who don't actually have to do them. Books go through multiple read-throughs by their authors, editors, copyeditors, proofreaders, etc., and errors still slip through. Indeed, there are usually new errors introduced in the process.

The read through I am talking about is just for the eBook after the eBook is created. This would catch most errors and see that they do need proofing of their work.

 

[BrotherBenny]

But a once through read should catch most errors.

Jobs always seem simpler to people who don't actually have to do them. Books go through multiple read-throughs by their authors, editors, copyeditors, proofreaders, etc., and errors still slip through. Indeed, there are usually new errors introduced in the process.

BTW, Christopher, ePub is basically a type of eBook formatting style which is the de facto industry standard for all eBook Readers (just as Mobipocket and the MS Reader were a few years ago, and PDFs) - see here ePub.

I have actually had to read through documents, did it as a summer job through college, to root out errors, and I found one book I read through and marked changes on had gone back to the author who accepted them, and then another proof reader higher up the food chain who bollixed it up. I understand errors get introduced during the process.

What JWolf and I are talking about is AFTER all that, when the final galley is submitted to the printers. The electronic document that is sent to the printers can also be sent, AS IS, to a person to make an eBook from it. At that point, the only errors are formatting errors (not spelling/grammar/continuity errors) in the conversion process. If an author can do it on his own book, why can't S&S staff or whoever they have outsourced it to do it?

I've never attempted it before, because I don't have a document of sufficient length to try it on, but I sure as hell would if I could. I have books on my Kindle from other publishing houses and they are all perfectly formatted. Only Pocket's ST ones are badly done. I haven't read the CSI books I have on there yet, but since they are also S&S I expect issues there too.

If my name was on something, then I would expect it to be a perfect product. If I patented something, I'd expect the manufacturer to make it right. I am well aware that you guys (and gals) don't own your Trek works, but does that mean that you want an inferior product in the market?

 

[Therin of Andor]

The read through I am talking about is just for the eBook after the eBook is created. This would catch most errors and see that they do need proofing of their work.

So that would be a week's work for someone - and paid at a higher level than a typist. Then someone else to make the physical changes to the file. The budget probably doesn't allow for that.

 

[Deano2099]

The read through I am talking about is just for the eBook after the eBook is created. This would catch most errors and see that they do need proofing of their work.

So that would be a week's work for someone - and paid at a higher level than a typist. Then someone else to make the physical changes to the file. The budget probably doesn't allow for that.

Then maybe don't make eBooks?

It doesn't even need to be a proper read anyway, most of the errors talked about here are formatting errors - missing line spacing, etc. All that needs is a skim-read to check the physical shape of the text matches the final proofs. Doesn't even need a proper editor to do it. And making the changes to the file is trivial and someone could be trained to do that in an hour...

The problem isn't that the ebooks aren't being checked sufficiently, it's that, given the errors that are cropping up, it seems like they're not being checked at all. I work as an editor, I'm sensitive to the human-error factor, stuff always slips through. But it's not just one or two bits and pieces in some cases. It's stuff that, were the eBook given even a cursory look in comparison to the final proofs, would be obvious.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Doesn't even need a proper editor to do it.

Union regulations probably disagree.

And making the changes to the file is trivial and someone could be trained to do that in an hour...

And they'd then do the work for free?

You make it sound soooooo easy. Obviously, it's not.

I work as an editor, I'm sensitive to the human-error factor, stuff always slips through. But it's not just one or two bits and pieces in some cases. It's stuff that, were the eBook given even a cursory look in comparison to the final proofs, would be obvious.

I've worked as an editor, too. We had a budget for corrections. Any corrections I missed on the first two passes were charged (at substantial cost) by the designer/platemaker - and when the budget ran out, that was the end of more corrections. And sometimes the correction caused other errors.

 

[JWolf]

Doesn't even need a proper editor to do it.

Union regulations probably disagree.

And making the changes to the file is trivial and someone could be trained to do that in an hour...

And they'd then do the work for free?

You make it sound soooooo easy. Obviously, it's not.

I work as an editor, I'm sensitive to the human-error factor, stuff always slips through. But it's not just one or two bits and pieces in some cases. It's stuff that, were the eBook given even a cursory look in comparison to the final proofs, would be obvious.

I've worked as an editor, too. We had a budget for corrections. Any corrections I missed on the first two passes were charged (at substantial cost) by the designer/platemaker - and when the budget ran out, that was the end of more corrections. And sometimes the correction caused other errors.

It is easy. I did it. Using the ePub version, I'm able to read it and then any errors found, I am able to go into the ePub and correct. It's not rocket science. It's not beyond someone with a high school diploma. It's not needing to hire an editor and any special staff. It just requires a read through. Maybe two staff members take the final eBook and read it. Find any errors and go and double check against a proof copy or the source used to make the eBook and then make the corrections. It is that easy. We are not talking print. So even if there are some errors missed when it's first released, if there was a way to submit errors, eventually, the errors in the eBooks would be gone and all newly sold copies would be error free.

Even errors put in by the author can be fixed in the eBook when they cannot be fixed in the print version. Like in Seize the Fire, where

Spoiler: error in Seize the Fire

Hawk was said to be killed by the Gorn when it was the Borg

All it took in that case was a simple one word change.

That's the beauty of eBooks, you can make corrects after the fact. But you can't if S&S doesn't care. They don't have anyone to contact if you have a problem with an eBook you bought from S&S. You don't have any way to submit errors. You don't have any way to give feedback. Basically, the slipshod work S&S is doing with trek eBooks is awful. For example, the ePub editions of the Typhon Pact all have embedded fonts, but due to a stupid error, the fonts are not being used. It's a two line fix in the CSS and it's fixed. But does S&S care? No. I think S&S doesn't even look at the eBooks after they are made. There is no way you would not notice that the font you've embedded isn't displaying in Adobe Digital Editions if you even bother to look at it just once.

What would it hurt for some of the authors to mention these things to the editor(s) so in turn it can be mentioned to the eBook staff what a poor job they really are doing.

 

[Greg Cox]

Doesn't even need a proper editor to do it.

Union regulations probably disagree.

.

You're joking, right? Trust me, there's no such thing as a science fiction editors union!


And, like I said, nobody wants sloppy books (or ebooks), but, at the moment, publishers are still adjusting to the whole ebook thing, which is only a tiny (if growing) part of the business. I would hope that if and when ebooks actually become a big deal, and not just a minor sideline, publishers will be motivated to expand their ebook departments and hire more proofreaders and quality control types.

Right now, everything is in transition, major bookstore chains are declaring bankruptcy, people are being laid off, you have fewer people doing more work, and everybody is just holding on by their fingertips waiting for the economy to turn around. Publishers are shedding staff, not hiring new ones.

(I should probably clarify that I'm talking about publishing in general, not S&S specifically. I don't work at S&S, and don't claim to be an expert on their internal workings.)

Hopefully, all these ebook issues will get straightened out in time . . . .

In the meantime, I need to get back to my deadlines!

 

[Therin of Andor]

You're joking, right? Trust me, there's no such thing as a science fiction editors union!

Maybe that's why their rights get trodden over all the time?

I wasn't thinking just SF editors. I'm assuming there are job descriptions, so that everyone knows their own responsibilities and you don't have 20 people trying to use the one photocopier, or the newly-arrived coffee boy trying to edit the next "War and Peace".

Right now, everything is in transition, major bookstore chains are declaring bankruptcy, people are being laid off, you have fewer people doing more work, and everybody is just holding on by their fingertips waiting for the economy to turn around. Publishers are shedding staff, not hiring new ones.

Exactly. eBooks are still "new". The MMPB took a long time to get where it is today.

What would it hurt for some of the authors to mention these things to the editor(s) so in turn it can be mentioned to the eBook staff what a poor job they really are doing.

Again, you refer to "staff" like there's an entire team. They were probably all fired, way back when the ST CoE eBooks were canceled.

You're probably criticising the work of some poor, downtrodden secretary who's been left in a deserted office, attempting to meet ridiculous deadlines on a budget of nothing.

 

[Greg Cox]

the newly-arrived coffee boy trying to edit the next "War and Peace".

.

Don't be silly. That's the high school intern's job.

Seriously, when I started out as an assistant editor at Arbor House, there was just one cranky photocopier on the entire floor, and we all had to use it . . . .

 

[JWolf]

The editor will already have done the job of editing the book. The errors are made by the people putting together the eBook from whatever source they use. So an editor is not needed. What is needed is a couple of read throughs of the supposedly finished eBook. Then most if not all errors can be found and corrected before the eBook goes out into the wild. Whatever the process is that they use, it isn't working. They need to either find a better way to do it or find a better staff to do it or both,

 

[Christopher]

The editor will already have done the job of editing the book. The errors are made by the people putting together the eBook from whatever source they use. So an editor is not needed. What is needed is a couple of read throughs of the supposedly finished eBook.

Which is the job of a proofreader, which is a paid position, which requires a budget. And that's the crux of the problem. You want to fix the eBooks, then fix the economy first.

Whatever the process is that they use, it isn't working. They need to either find a better way to do it or find a better staff to do it or both,

And I'm sure they want to. But wanting to do something doesn't do any good if the money isn't there. You seem to think that "a couple of read-throughs" would be a casual thing, something devoid of effort and cost, something that the people involved are just too lazy to bother with or something. That's not the case. Error-checking a novel-length document, let alone doing it once a month, is meticulous, time-consuming work. It's not as simple as you glibly assume, and it's not something just anybody can do effectively.

 

[JWolf]

The editor will already have done the job of editing the book. The errors are made by the people putting together the eBook from whatever source they use. So an editor is not needed. What is needed is a couple of read throughs of the supposedly finished eBook.

Which is the job of a proofreader, which is a paid position, which requires a budget. And that's the crux of the problem. You want to fix the eBooks, then fix the economy first.

Whatever the process is that they use, it isn't working. They need to either find a better way to do it or find a better staff to do it or both,

And I'm sure they want to. But wanting to do something doesn't do any good if the money isn't there. You seem to think that "a couple of read-throughs" would be a casual thing, something devoid of effort and cost, something that the people involved are just too lazy to bother with or something. That's not the case. Error-checking a novel-length document, let alone doing it once a month, is meticulous, time-consuming work. It's not as simple as you glibly assume, and it's not something just anybody can do effectively.

For a new book, there should be an electronic file. Most likely a word processing document. So how does it go from the original electronic file to an eBook with errors that do not exist in the original file? That's the crux of the matter. Somewhere along the line, the conversion is being botched. If they are using a PDF file as the source to then convert into the eBooks, then that's all wrong. I have never seen or heard or read of a way to convert a novel length PDF file into any other format without generating errors. I could be wrong here though.

Anyway, if S&S had a way to allow errors to be submitted, then eventually all the errors would be submitting and the eBooks error free. Even author errors would be caught and fixed.

It's not really a matter of the economy. It's a matter of finding a process of making eBooks that works. If they had a working method of making eBooks, then all that would be needed is a once through read to make sure nothing stands out that needs to be fixed. I can easily take a Word document and convert it to ePub format. Yes, it will need formatting/code fixing. But the words will be there without any extra errors that did not exist in the original file. It's really not hard. I can do it. It doesn't take a college degree. You don't need an editor. You just need someone with the technical skills to create an eBook from a word processing file.

If no electronic copy exists or the only electronic copy is PDF, then yes, you do need a lot more work as there's a lot more to do and once it's done, you still need to proof it. PDF conversions are OCR/SCAN both need rigorous proofing. But going from Word to ePub needs no real proofing other then to make sure it looks good and it's all there.

 

[Christopher]

^Like I said, it's easy for people who don't have to do a job themselves to assume it would be simple. But they're almost always wrong. I don't know what the job would entail, but I'm not so arrogant as to assume that my unfamiliarity with the difficulties means that no difficulties exist.

If this matters so much to you, and if you think it would be so easy, then go to New York, walk into the S&S offices, and volunteer to fix their eBooks for free. Either you're right and you'll make things better for everyone, or you're wrong and you'll learn there are complications you weren't aware of, and will come away with a greater understanding of the situation. Either of those outcomes would achieve more than just lecturing us about it incessantly on a fan BBS.

 

[Janos]

To the critics.... I just want to say that every book I have read in print (I don't read e-books) whether ST lit or other lit ALWAYS has a handful of errors in them. However, in most if not all cases (for me) they are correctly spelled words, but not used correctly (an instead of and in my current Mission Gamma 3 read). These errors are never distracting (for me). I think for the size of the books we read, unless the books are riddled with errors (SEVERAL fundamental errors that really impact/change what the writer hoped to convey to the reader), I think we chalk it up to an acceptable zone for human error.

In my own real job as a communications manager, sometimes errors slip through, small typos, in memos/letters/whathaveyou. You try to minimize those instances, but they sometimes happen. I would say that those that complain about typos in their books should set the same standard for their own "real life" work. If you write letters, send e-mails, or talk perfectly then, I guess, complain away. However, if you're not perfect, like the rest of us, let's just acknowledge that sometimes errors happen.

In the end, I appreciate that despite the economic challenges, and that the ST lit environment is a lot different from its heyday in the 1990s, S&S still commissions writers to put out interesting stories in a relatively interconnected cohesive universe. I can pick and choose what to read, and for the most part, if I read a book that continues threads from a previous book I didn't read, that new book(s) fills me in briefly at the beginning.

Mistakes happen in ALL PROFESSIONS. Lets not pretend that they don't.

 

[Stoek]

And now permit me to offer the flip side of what Janos said. Because at this point I'm pretty much ONLY doing Star Trek in E-Book (kindle to be specific) and while I noticed a bit of oddness with the early New Frontier books, most of the stuff from around the DS9 Relaunch on has been just fine. Sure a typo here and there, the odd incorrect use of a word or phrase (on a side note, new rule, everyone needs to stop using the phrase "The exception that proves the rule" because almost no one ever uses it correctly). One of the things I wonder about the ebook bitchers where non typo complaints are concerned (line spacing etc) is what settings are you using? Because I would assume if you are not using the default settings it's going to have an effect on chapter breaks, line spacing etc.