More post TMP stories? (Ex Machina)

[Gotham Central]

I just finished reading Ex Machina...yeah I'm slow...and really loved the book. I am curious as to whether or not anyone else thinks that there should be more post TMP/pre TWOK novels. Its an interesting period of time.

For Christopher I do have a few questions:

1) Does this novel work from the premise that there is a second five year mission with Kirk in command. I know that that has always been conjectured, but Ex Machina leaves that a bit vague. I.e Kirk calls the Enterprise his ship, but through out the story he calls it a shakedown cruise.

2) I love all of the references to all of the other Trek properties in the book. Did you consider looking at any of the material in the original Marvel comics and the later Untold Voyages series?

3) Doesn't New Earth/Challenger fit in this period and isn't it part of the broader continuity now?

4) I'm curious about Kirk's rank and admit that TMP is a bit confusing on this front. Did Kirk accept a demotion in order to command the Enterprise? I was under the impression that he was still and Admiral and retains that rank until the events in The Voyage Home.

 

[Christopher]

I just finished reading Ex Machina...yeah I'm slow...and really loved the book.

Thanks!

I am curious as to whether or not anyone else thinks that there should be more post TMP/pre TWOK novels. Its an interesting period of time.

I have revisited that period in Mere Anarchy Book 4: The Darkness Drops Again, and will be revisiting it more extensively in my upcoming DTI: Forgotten History, which will be out in May.

1) Does this novel work from the premise that there is a second five year mission with Kirk in command. I know that that has always been conjectured, but Ex Machina leaves that a bit vague. I.e Kirk calls the Enterprise his ship, but through out the story he calls it a shakedown cruise.

One of the books I chose to keep ExM consistent with was Peter David's The Captain's Daughter, which explicitly establishes a second 5-year mission after TMP, so yes, I was going from that assumption. In retrospect, I would've preferred not to, though, since there's really no reason to assume that 5-year missions are in any way standard. We only have evidence that one ship had one 5-year mission, and fans always seem to assume that's the universal norm even though it's impossible to extrapolate a pattern from a single example. However, in MA:TDDA, I was able to have it both ways; since there's a gap of about 12 years between TMP & TWOK, that left me a lot of time after that second 5-year mission in which to give the Enterprise a greater variety in its mission profiles. That's a period I wouldn't mind developing more at some point, or seeing someone else develop.

2) I love all of the references to all of the other Trek properties in the book. Did you consider looking at any of the material in the original Marvel comics and the later Untold Voyages series?

I hadn't read Untold Voyages at the time, and its approach to that period doesn't mesh with mine. And the original Marvel comics were a bit too goofy. However, in Forgotten History there are a couple of Easter-egg references you might want to keep your eye out for...

3) Doesn't New Earth/Challenger fit in this period and isn't it part of the broader continuity now?

I don't know if New Earth is considered to be part of the current continuity, although I guess that's implied by the Challenger installment in Gateways. The Pocket Timeline in the back of Voyages of the Imagination places New Earth in 2280, which would be two years after the end of the second 5-year mission, and would probably fit into the scenario I established for that period in MA:TDDA, in which the Enterprise is Admiral Kirk's personal flagship commanded by Captain Spock and is sometimes sent on special missions with Kirk in command. Although as I recall, that's a bit of a retcon, since the text of the books themselves implied an earlier timeframe much closer to TMP.

4) I'm curious about Kirk's rank and admit that TMP is a bit confusing on this front. Did Kirk accept a demotion in order to command the Enterprise? I was under the impression that he was still and Admiral and retains that rank until the events in The Voyage Home.

Kirk starts TMP in a uniform with admiral's stripes, but then spends the rest of the movie wearing captain's stripes. That suggests he wasn't just an admiral being called "captain" while he commanded the ship, but actually was demoted to captain. Remember, TWOK is a dozen years later, plenty of time for him to be promoted back up to admiral (and the circumstances of that are discussed some in MA:TDDA).

 

[Stoek]

Given the nature of this thread (questions to an author about a specific work) I thought it might not be inappropriate if I were to ask one of my own.

In reading the annotations for EM, I noticed that all or nearly all of the characters were based on individuals who had appeared onscreen at some point during TMP. Yet at the same time I would consider them "original" characters since to the best of my knowledge there had not been any kind of personality or history established for any of them by other authors.

So my question is did you find that using characters who had appeared in the movie had an effect either positive or negative on the approval process?

Also I was wondering if you might be willing to talk a bit about what the situation for getting "original" characters approved is like these days.

The sense I've gotten around the Richard Arnold (if I'm remembering the name correctly) days is that you had a better chance of making first contact for real than getting a character approved who hadn't appeared in the movies or tv show(s). If that is an accurate assessment I was wondering if it was less difficult these days, and if more reasonable guidelines and practices were in place for why an original character did or did not get approved.

Thank you in advance for whatever time you might choose to take answering any of these questions.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Did you consider looking at any of the material in the original Marvel comics and the later Untold Voyages series?

Of course, both "Ex Machina" and the "Untold Voyages" comic mini-series developed the background Rhaandarite ensign (played by Billy Van Zandt in TMP) in very different, incompatible ways. While it frustrated the hell out of me (ie. in that my old fanfics included him, too, and I had hoped they'd always remain compatible with the official stuff), it also delighted me that Christopher did such a great job with him!

I recommend "Ex Machina" to lots of fellow fans and am really looking forward to reading about the "Ex Machina" supporting cast of TMP aliens again in "Forgotten History".


Rec deck aliens by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

I changed two speech bubbles of this LA Times Syndicate comic strip in homage to the arrival of "Ex Machina".


Rhaandarite bridge ensign by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

 

[Christopher]

In reading the annotations for EM, I noticed that all or nearly all of the characters were based on individuals who had appeared onscreen at some point during TMP. Yet at the same time I would consider them "original" characters since to the best of my knowledge there had not been any kind of personality or history established for any of them by other authors.

So my question is did you find that using characters who had appeared in the movie had an effect either positive or negative on the approval process?

It had no bearing on the approval process. All Star Trek characters are equally the property of Paramount (or CBS, now) and equally fair game for use in tie-ins. Besides, for most of the background characters, it wasn't really evident in the manuscript that they were based on extras from the film.

Also I was wondering if you might be willing to talk a bit about what the situation for getting "original" characters approved is like these days.

The sense I've gotten around the Richard Arnold (if I'm remembering the name correctly) days is that you had a better chance of making first contact for real than getting a character approved who hadn't appeared in the movies or tv show(s). If that is an accurate assessment I was wondering if it was less difficult these days, and if more reasonable guidelines and practices were in place for why an original character did or did not get approved.

Well, of course every Trek novel has original characters in it; it'd be tough to do a novel-length story with just the established characters. Arnold's objection was to original continuing characters or other continuity among books/comics that he felt would detract from the focus on the canonical cast. And of course that is no longer the case and hasn't been for a very long time, as you can tell from the abundance of ongoing prose series featuring original characters, such as New Frontier, Stargazer, Corps of Engineers, Titan, Vanguard, DTI, the various post-finale series, and the like.

I've never found the approval process to be done on a character-by-character basis. As far as I can recall, the Paramount/CBS licensing people have never told me that I couldn't use character X or had to use character Y. Generally the licensing people are only concerned with keeping the books consistent with canon. Arnold's approach was most atypical.

Of course, both "Ex Machina" and the "Untold Voyages" comic mini-series developed the background Rhaandarite ensign (played by Billy Van Zandt in TMP) in very different, incompatible ways. While it frustrated the hell out of me (ie. in that my old fanfics included him, too, and I had hoped they'd always remain compatible with the official stuff), it also delighted me that Christopher did such a great job with him!

Well, like I've suggested before, maybe Ensign Omal in Untold Voyages was simply a different Rhaandarite. After all, we saw two other Rhaandarites in the rec deck crowd. And indeed, I'd say Omal can't be the character Billy Van Zandt played, because his character was in security department colors while Omal was a science officer.

I changed two speech bubbles of this LA Times Syndicate comic strip in homage to the arrival of "Ex Machina".

And I really tried to find a place to insert an Easter-egg reference to a Zaranite transporter operator in Forgotten History, but alas, there was no opportunity for it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I really tried to find a place to insert an Easter-egg reference to a Zaranite transporter operator in Forgotten History...

Hehehehehehe.

 

[ATimson]

Although as I recall, that's a bit of a retcon, since the text of the books themselves implied an earlier timeframe much closer to TMP.

I didn't think so - between the uniform change, Chekov leaving for Reliant, and the Enterprise being officially commanded by Spock before the mission, I always thought it was closer to the TWOK end of things.

 

[ryan123450]

But I think there were historian's notes that outright claimed it was just after TMP.

 

[Christopher]

And in the early pages of the first New Earth book, there's a passage where Kirk is thinking about the upgraded ship as though he's still not used to it, still expecting to look around the bridge and see it the way it looked in TOS. You'd think he'd be over that after 7 years. So the Pocket Timeline's placement of NE is a reasonable retcon, but the original intent when the books were written was apparently a bit different.

 

[Plaristes]

There was a syndicated comic strip using TMP costumes and such. I've never read it (damn that legal mixup preventing reprinting), but wasn't it supposed to be set shortly after TMP? Will any of this material be referenced in the next DTI book, Christopher?

 

[ryan123450]

I think those comics are available online. I don't think there's any legal problem with it either because the site they are on just links to them directly, it's not some sort of file sharing illegal set up.

 

[Christopher]

There was a syndicated comic strip using TMP costumes and such. I've never read it (damn that legal mixup preventing reprinting), but wasn't it supposed to be set shortly after TMP? Will any of this material be referenced in the next DTI book, Christopher?

That would be telling...

 

[Therin of Andor]

There was a syndicated comic strip using TMP costumes and such. I've never read it

Story arc guide:
http://www.startrekcomics.info/ustosstrips.html

Read them here:
http://www.hassleinbooks.com/startrek/US_Comic_Strips/LA_Times_Syndicate/

 

[CaptainMatt]

I also really enjoyed Ex Machina, being a Spock fan and a classic series-movie fan as well. So it really spoke to me and I loved every second of reading it. That was some number of years ago, and for Christmas I got another one of Christopher's novels along with even more Trek books. I was very happy this past year on Christmas Day, let me assure you. I am by no means on his level, but from one writer to another-I can appreciate his hard work.

 

[Pauln6]

I've assumed that that since a second series was planned as part of Phase II, it was to represent a second 5-year mission. Whatever the plan, I'd love to see more TMP stories. More novels featuring this period are a good thing. More comics detailing this period are a good thing (the Leonard McCoy comics and Infestation cross-over were both set in this period). I'd vote for a cartoon detailing a second 5 year mission. I'm even doing a cheesy B5/Alien crossover photo comic on Youtube.

I would have no strong objections if somebody improved the uniforms a bit and made them a bit more space-age and less pyjama-like but otherwise I love the era, particularly the most multi-racial crew we've seen.

 

[Christopher]

I've assumed that that since a second series was planned as part of Phase II, it was to represent a second 5-year mission.

Well, yes, that actually was stated in the Phase II bible. Still, I think people read too much into the whole "five-year mission" thing. The length of the mission never actually came up in TOS itself outside of the opening narration. The only actual canonical evidence we have for the five-year mission is Kirk's reference to "my five years out there" in TMP and Icheb's reference to Kirk's five-year mission in VGR: "Q2." The Phase II bible probably only mentions a "second five-year mission" so they wouldn't have to rewrite the opening narration or other references in the bible (a lot of which was recycled straight from the TOS bible). If PII had happened and had a successful run, the mission probably would've been as long as the series ran.

I would have no strong objections if somebody improved the uniforms a bit and made them a bit more space-age and less pyjama-like but otherwise I love the era, particularly the most multi-racial crew we've seen.

I think the uniforms are fine. They have a lot of variety and strike me more as both practical and futuristic attire than any other uniforms we've seen. The only change I'd make is to make the colors a little more vivid, but not too much. (And improve the lighting in the bridge so the uniform colors aren't so washed out in those scenes.)

 

[Pauln6]

I think the uniforms are fine. They have a lot of variety and strike me more as both practical and futuristic attire than any other uniforms we've seen. The only change I'd make is to make the colors a little more vivid, but not too much. (And improve the lighting in the bridge so the uniform colors aren't so washed out in those scenes.)

Yes I rather like them, although I would have preferred it if there had been more logic to the uniform colour scheme. I noted that bio-belt style monitors made it into the new movie too. However, the uniforms do seem quite unpopular with most fans and the actors hated that they were so revealing. Only a few of them seem to have pockets too. I could certainly live with it if they kept the rough colour-scheme but updated the uniforms a bit.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Only a few of them seem to have pockets too.

Because tools etc could stick to the outside with Velcro-like magnet thingies. Pants pockets weren't in TOS either; TMP was different in that a Class 3 uniform design did feature thigh pockets.

 

[Pauln6]

Only a few of them seem to have pockets too.

Because tools etc could stick to the outside with Velcro-like magnet thingies. Pants pockets weren't in TOS either; TMP was different in that a Class 3 uniform design did feature thigh pockets.

I can't see Kirk keeping his condoms attached to his waist on velcro. I like the thigh pockets though. I recall Grace Lee Whitney posed in a technician's uniform with some. I think they resurrected them in TNG too didn't they?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I can't see Kirk keeping his condoms attached to his waist on velcro.

Why would Starfleeters need to carry them on their person? Who says they are even being used?

According to canon, Sisko used to get regular injections.

I like the thigh pockets though. I recall Grace Lee Whitney posed in a technician's uniform with some.

Yep. Class 3 uniform.

I think they resurrected them in TNG too didn't they?

And used Velcro.