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MontalKhan, brownfaced?
- Thread starter urbandefault
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Besch is an Austrian by birth who grew up in New York. Doesn't sound "Middle American" to me.
As for Eve. IIRC they toyed with her using an American accent but decide against it. They also had a line about her growing up in England where her father was station. In the end it wasn't worth the time to include in the film. I'd say they made the right call. Has little or nothing to do with not caring about continuity. Continuity should be about the broad strokes not the picayune details.
As for Eve. IIRC they toyed with her using an American accent but decide against it. They also had a line about her growing up in England where her father was station. In the end it wasn't worth the time to include in the film. I'd say they made the right call. Has little or nothing to do with not caring about continuity. Continuity should be about the broad strokes not the picayune details.
Funny enough, The Skeptics Guide to the Universe were discussing accents this week. Apparently there was a recent study which suggested that statistically, your accent is more likely to reflect your class than your region.
With statistics, of course there's always outliers. But based on personal experience, I'd say that I can see where they're coming from.
Oh, and the accent that media figures traditionally were encouraged to use is referred to as a Transatlantic accent. It's not a regional accent, but a purposefully crafted 'neutral' one that was made so that speech would be clear for any English speaking audience. Katherine Hepburns accent was an example of one, and it pops up a lot in TOS. To me as a non-American, that was what Besch sounded like.
And now if I never speak about accents again, it will be all too soon.
With statistics, of course there's always outliers. But based on personal experience, I'd say that I can see where they're coming from.
Oh, and the accent that media figures traditionally were encouraged to use is referred to as a Transatlantic accent. It's not a regional accent, but a purposefully crafted 'neutral' one that was made so that speech would be clear for any English speaking audience. Katherine Hepburns accent was an example of one, and it pops up a lot in TOS. To me as a non-American, that was what Besch sounded like.
And now if I never speak about accents again, it will be all too soon.
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I've heard that before too. Especially for news anchors.
My family is a riot of various accents.
Dad and his parents were native New Jersey. They always sounded "normal" to me.
Mom is from the Bronx, but moved to NJ at 18 and lost the Bronxian.
Mom's father sounded like Archie Bunker. Heavy cliche Bronx with some Brooklynese too. Sometimes I thought I was listening to a Bowery Boys film.
Mom's mother was from Scotland, came to the US at 9, and kept just a tiny hint of the Scots.
HER father was from Glasgow, and I couldn't understand a bloody word he said.
.My sister, a pure Jersey Girl, Moved to South Carolina 20 years ago. She sounds like a native southerner now, though her accent isn't nearly as heavy as her oldest son, who basically grew up down there, and sounds like he was in deliverance!
I happen to like stories that take our cherished, beloved notions and subversively twist them sideways. It's a fictional universe anyway, and I find it amusing that people get so worked up about these things, as if it's all holy writ.
So I enjoyed the casting of Cumberbatch as Khan, as well as his performance.
And I prefer that the big differences just be left as a total mystery, and not addressed at all. Let the audiences keep scratching their heads forever!
The need to provide convoluted technobabble explanations for every single little detail was what bogged down much of Trek in the 1990s and 2000s. Consider, for example, the fanboyish "Klingon forehead" story in the last season of Enterprise.
The whole thing should have been left unexplained.
I always thought that Faran Tahir would have made a good Khan (though again, not the exact right ethnicity
), but he had already played a different character in ST09.
As to the original question of whether Montalban wore dark makeup in "Space Seed," his skin tone did seem significantly different in TWOK; I think more so than can be attributed to a tan or lack thereof.
Kor
So I enjoyed the casting of Cumberbatch as Khan, as well as his performance.
And I prefer that the big differences just be left as a total mystery, and not addressed at all. Let the audiences keep scratching their heads forever!The need to provide convoluted technobabble explanations for every single little detail was what bogged down much of Trek in the 1990s and 2000s. Consider, for example, the fanboyish "Klingon forehead" story in the last season of Enterprise.
The whole thing should have been left unexplained.I always thought that Faran Tahir would have made a good Khan (though again, not the exact right ethnicity
), but he had already played a different character in ST09.As to the original question of whether Montalban wore dark makeup in "Space Seed," his skin tone did seem significantly different in TWOK; I think more so than can be attributed to a tan or lack thereof.
Kor
My parents retained most of their Southern accents, even after living in California for 40 years. My siblings and I lost ours, though it would reappear after vacationing in th South. My friends thought my mother's accent was "cute". I think they called the house just to hear it.
I've heard that before too. Especially for news anchors.
My family is a riot of various accents.
Dad and his parents were native New Jersey. They always sounded "normal" to me.
Mom is from the Bronx, but moved to NJ at 18 and lost the Bronxian.
Mom's father sounded like Archie Bunker. Heavy cliche Bronx with some Brooklynese too. Sometimes I thought I was listening to a Bowery Boys film.
Mom's mother was from Scotland, came to the US at 9, and kept just a tiny hint of the Scots.
HER father was from Glasgow, and I couldn't understand a bloody word he said.
My sister, a pure Jersey Girl, Moved to South Carolina 20 years ago. She sounds like a native southerner now, though her accent isn't nearly as heavy as her oldest son, who basically grew up down there, and sounds like he was in deliverance!
.
My parents retained most of their Southern accents, even after living in California for 40 years. My siblings and I lost ours, though it would reappear after vacationing in th South. My friends thought my mother's accent was "cute". I think they called the house just to hear it.
I've heard that before too. Especially for news anchors.
My family is a riot of various accents.
Dad and his parents were native New Jersey. They always sounded "normal" to me.
Mom is from the Bronx, but moved to NJ at 18 and lost the Bronxian.
Mom's father sounded like Archie Bunker. Heavy cliche Bronx with some Brooklynese too. Sometimes I thought I was listening to a Bowery Boys film.
Mom's mother was from Scotland, came to the US at 9, and kept just a tiny hint of the Scots.
HER father was from Glasgow, and I couldn't understand a bloody word he said.
My sister, a pure Jersey Girl, Moved to South Carolina 20 years ago. She sounds like a native southerner now, though her accent isn't nearly as heavy as her oldest son, who basically grew up down there, and sounds like he was in deliverance!
I think the Southern accent is something that, once infected with it, just can't be killed.
I remember him being VERY dark on an episode of "Wild wild west"
Or maybe the Companion just reversed the damage caused by Cochrane's rampant alcoholism and (presumably) radiation poisoning brought on in the aftermath of WWIII. That's certainly a possible reason why James Cromwell played Cochrane so haggard.
As for Khan: Maybe Lt. McGivers simply assumed he was Sikh because of his name (IIRC, all Sikh men have the last name Singh). However since Khan is obviously not an observant Sikh, McGivers' research would appear to be rather sloppy.
McGivers speculated that Khan was a Sikh before we ever figured out his name.
She developed a romanticized notion of him while he was still sleeping in the stasis chamber.
"From the northern India area, I'd guess. Probably a Sikh. They were the most fantastic warriors."
That was never actually confirmed by Khan or anyone else, but she carried her own idea forward, later doing the painting depicting him with a turban.
Kor
"From the northern India area, I'd guess. Probably a Sikh. They were the most fantastic warriors."
That was never actually confirmed by Khan or anyone else, but she carried her own idea forward, later doing the painting depicting him with a turban.
Kor
^ and ^^:
I'm going with McGivers was and excellent historian, and an overly romantic one. It's no stretch to say she recognized Khan instantly, but wanted to get to know him first before identifying him to her superiors, so she gave them that vague description. As for the painting, as finished as it was, she had probably been working on it for weeks.
I'm going with McGivers was and excellent historian, and an overly romantic one. It's no stretch to say she recognized Khan instantly, but wanted to get to know him first before identifying him to her superiors, so she gave them that vague description. As for the painting, as finished as it was, she had probably been working on it for weeks.
Clearly Khan Singh was no Napoleon: in two universes, Kirk draws a blank at his face and his name at first. But he may well have been famous enough to be instantly recognizable by an expert or an enthusiast.
And while Kirk is something of a fan of Khan's benign tyranny, he has no known expertise in history beyond the 19th century United States. McGivers in turn is diverse in her interest in past supermen, as her art testifies.
But it could go either way. Perhaps Khan was a Sikh, and really hailed from northern India. Or perhaps he was a Mexican and held power over Central and South America even if choosing a nom de guerre from another context - a fact revealed in Spock's analysis, and never commented upon because McGivers' "error" was so blatant. The turban? McGivers drawing inspiration from her own hasty lie. What if...?
But the middle ground is probably the safest. Yes, Khan was Indian, at least by choice if not by birth. No, he wasn't a Sikh, although he chose a ruling name intended to appeal to all of his subjects in the subcontinent. And McGivers obfuscated, got fascinated with her own lies, but did know exactly what she was doing.
Timo Saloniemi
And while Kirk is something of a fan of Khan's benign tyranny, he has no known expertise in history beyond the 19th century United States. McGivers in turn is diverse in her interest in past supermen, as her art testifies.
But it could go either way. Perhaps Khan was a Sikh, and really hailed from northern India. Or perhaps he was a Mexican and held power over Central and South America even if choosing a nom de guerre from another context - a fact revealed in Spock's analysis, and never commented upon because McGivers' "error" was so blatant. The turban? McGivers drawing inspiration from her own hasty lie. What if...?
But the middle ground is probably the safest. Yes, Khan was Indian, at least by choice if not by birth. No, he wasn't a Sikh, although he chose a ruling name intended to appeal to all of his subjects in the subcontinent. And McGivers obfuscated, got fascinated with her own lies, but did know exactly what she was doing.
Timo Saloniemi
I think some of this was addressed in Greg Cox's "Khan" novel trilogy.... deciding not wearing the traditional Sikh beard and turban, etc. I can't recall the details.
But that's not cannnnnon.
EDIT: Oh, look, I start typing a message mentioning him, and he appears.
Kor
Just don't say my name three times.
I think some of this was addressed in Greg Cox's "Khan" novel trilogy.... deciding not wearing the traditional Sikh beard and turban, etc. I can't recall the details.
But that's not cannnnnon.
EDIT: Oh, look, I start typing a message mentioning him, and he appears.
Kor
I'm following this Khan thread for a while and kept asking myself "when does Greg Cox finally show up"?
The original question was, if Montalban was tanned the way he was or if it was make-up.......
I'm inclined to say, all the actors pay a visit to the make-up artist. So what? Differences in skin color can also be due to the ambient illumination.
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