MontalKhan, brownfaced?
- Thread starter urbandefault
- Start date
Glenn Corbett and James Cromwell -- two actors who look and sound nothing like each other -- both played the same character, Zefram Cochrane.
It's not reality. It's Star Trek.
I thought Pine was jewish and Quinto Italian? James Bond's parents were apparently Scottish which is the latest theory used in the last movie, not sure if that was in the books or not! Cumberbatch wasn't in the same league as Montalban and it really depends on what version you prefer really! I prefer Montalban, Shatner and Nimoy from the tv episode and that's a fact!
JB
JB
In the movie it was explained that the Romulan ship coming to the 23rd century changed history and created a parallel timeline/universe. Absolutely everything was the same up until that point. It follows that only events that take place after this point should be eligible for change. Khan was already floating around space on the Botany Bay when the Romulan ship altered the timeline. It was the same Khan who William Shatner's Kirk encountered in Space Seed.
To be honest I've given up on the appearance debate now. I accept it was probably plastic surgery. The voice is more irksome. I would think Khan would slip back into his natural accent once he reveals who he is rather than keep up the pretence of Harrison. All in all I really can't see this character as Khan. Pine, Quinto and Urban brought their own take to the classic characters but I can still identify them as Kirk, Spock and Bones. Cumberbatch, a brilliant actor by the way, was nothing at all like Khan in my opinion.
Very good point.
Really?????? I thought it was!
The writers of First Contact admitted they tossed aside the Corbett version of Cochrane in favour of creating a new take on the character. I do understood those who criticise this decision but to be frank Zefram Cochrane was not in any way iconic or identifiable like Khan is. To add to that wasn't Cochrane fixed up by aliens in Metamorphosis? Who is to say they managed to make him look like his old self? It explains itself away unlike Abrams Khan.
Cochrane said he was rejuvenated and kept young by the noncorporeal entity he called "the Companion." I suppose it could have given him a complete face and body makeover as well!
I just want to apologise if I turned this into a race debate. It wasn't my intention but I can see it has happened. I've taken on board all the comments during this discussion and concluded that above all else what bothers me isn't how Khan looks in the latest movie but the fact he's such a departure from the classic version. I feel he's so different he really didn't need to be Khan at all but that's just my opinion.
The funny thing is, when Lt. McGivers gives her expert analysis on the sleeper in Space Seed", nothing about Khan suggests Sikh in the slightest. Not the skin tone, not the hairstyle, not the missing beard, not the clothing or jewelry or whatnot.
Was McGivers lying in the hopes of keeping Kirk from discovering Khan's (to her) obvious identity too soon? Given her later actions, this would be a smart move of her...
Later on, we actually get more reason to think that the sleeper is not a Sikh: his name or title is Khan, something rather unlikely to be chosen by a follower of that faith! And indeed nothing in the episode confirms that Khan would have been a Sikh; McGivers' statement could be dismissed as a guess that missed, regardless of whether it was a deliberate lie or a professional fumble.
As for MontalKhan vs. CumberKhan, I'm all for the secret agent face change trick. After all, the face of MontalKhan was recognizable to 23rd century Feds after a bit of pondering, and would have gotten the superman in trouble! "Different" is to be expected, "same" would not fit plot logic at all...
Timo Saloniemi
Was McGivers lying in the hopes of keeping Kirk from discovering Khan's (to her) obvious identity too soon? Given her later actions, this would be a smart move of her...
Later on, we actually get more reason to think that the sleeper is not a Sikh: his name or title is Khan, something rather unlikely to be chosen by a follower of that faith! And indeed nothing in the episode confirms that Khan would have been a Sikh; McGivers' statement could be dismissed as a guess that missed, regardless of whether it was a deliberate lie or a professional fumble.
As for MontalKhan vs. CumberKhan, I'm all for the secret agent face change trick. After all, the face of MontalKhan was recognizable to 23rd century Feds after a bit of pondering, and would have gotten the superman in trouble! "Different" is to be expected, "same" would not fit plot logic at all...
Timo Saloniemi
This is one of the things I've always loved about Star Trek. They don't give us anymore than the story requires, which allows our imaginations to run wild with the rest.
And I wouldn't have it any other way.
Him being Sikh, and more specifically a northern Indian one rather than an expat, is a claim made by a character in canon. That claim is never returned to (confirmed or disputed), in that episode or in any other context (such as ST2:TWoK or ST:ID). The claim being made remains canon, but the character making it is one of those established to be generally unreliable, and lying at least on occasion.
Him having a turban in a recent painting by McGivers would directly follow from that claim, be it true or just a secret wish or a misleading trick by the Lieutenant...
Timo Saloniemi
Well if you'd read the thread, you'd know Bond was Scottish in the books. Though it's a slight retcon by Fleming.
As much as I like Montalban, there's no way he's as good an actor a Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch is on a whole different level.
By past standards Cumberbatch should have played the role in brownface and used a dodgy Indian accent.
Khan's "ethnic" journey is an odd one. The character starts out as Harold Erickson a prisoner placed in stasis because of over population on Earth. In a later draft he's Ragnar Thorwald/John Ericson the leader of the "First World Tyranny". After Montalban was cast they change the character to Sabahl Khan Noonien (Why not make the character Hispanic?) This seems to be from Roddenberry who names the character after his old buddy from WWII, Kim Noonien Wang. Later this become The becomes Khan Noonien Singh. Which is a bit problematic for the seemingly Sikh character, as Khan in South Asia is usually a Muslim name and Noonien isn't South Asian at all.
Source
Perhaps in universe the name is false. One created by "Khan" to appeal to a wide range of his Empire's population.
Subject A-295 isn't quite as catchy.
A combination of crass marketing (use a "hot" actor) and JJ's mystery box of trying to hide his identity to the audience until they bought a ticket. Similar to using Alice Eve and not having her lose her accent.
The last thing on their minds was continuity.
Which is the way it should be. Though I had no issues with the casting of Cumberbatch and Eve. I wish every production would use the best actors available to it at any given time.
How is using a popular and more importantly talented actor crass?
Casting Alice Eve as Carol is hardly in the same ballpark as casting Cumberbatch as Khan, no matter what criteria you use
My thought is that his actual name is Noonien Singh, and that Khan is a title that he insists people use to address him.
Similar threads
