Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Things"

[GhostFaceSaint]

So is Q a monster, a cynic, or, is he someone trying to make Picard and his crew wiser.

Q seems to be a monster in bringing about the threat of the Borg but did he do it just for jollies, or, was it part of humanities trial, and so is Q still really playing the judge? So how about it, was Q trying to make some sort of vicious point, or was he trying to prepare Picard for the true monsters lurking out there in space?

If you examine Q from the point of view that we get in "Tapestry" it seems he is trying to teach an important lesson to Picard. Playing the wise teacher trying to remind Picard something he forgot about himself?

In the series final "All Good Things" parts one and two, did Q bring about the threat to humanity, or was the threat why he was still trying humanity in Q's court of law? If he did, why, and did he know Picard would save humanity again? If Q was trying to get Picard to learn something what was it really that he was trying to teach Picard when the trial ended?

 

[MikeS]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

If it weren't for Q the UFP would have fell to a Borg invasion. I think Picard owes him a huge debt of gratitude for everything he tried to teach him, including his frailty when it comes to love (QPid), which he duly forgot by Lessons.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

This is what makes Q so intriguing, that you can look back and see all his actions in a different way and see that he may have been ultimately helping everyone. Or maybe it was unintentional and he really IS a monster. Ambiguity.

 

[Dream]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Q was one of the few characters to get a story arc in TNG.

When Q first appears he is a dick. You can look at all of his different actions over the years as the result of his character slowly changing from antagonist to someone that might almost be considered fond of humans. This change is brought about because of all of encounters with our main characters. John de Lancie was really geat showing the humor and the menacing sides of the character.

Sadly DS9 and VOY mostly used the character for comedy relief. I wished that the last episode Q appeared in was AGT. It really would have been the perfect sendoff.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I never bought Q as a villan. Just as a pest who kept showing up and causing trouble. TNG's Harry Mudd, if you will.

And most of his actions in the series has ulterior, generaly postive for Picard/Humanity, motives.

 

[rahullak]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I get the feeling that the Q as omnipotent beings have taken it upon themselves to test/monitor the progress of "lesser" species in the galaxy or the universe.
And Q (John De Lancie) has been specifically assigned to play "big brother" to the UFP.

They probably have some version of the Prime Directive as their guiding principle in interfering/monitoring/testing in the affairs of other species.

Looked at it this way, even episodes where Q asks Janeway to "instruct" his son and "help" in the Q civil war could all have been just to see how the humanoids acted/reacted to the circumstances.

Definitely intriguing.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I never bought Q as a villan. Just as a pest who kept showing up and causing trouble. TNG's Harry Mudd, if you will.

True, he wasn't a standard villain, but he deserves a lot more credit than being compared to that guy. Mudd was a joke. He was never a serious threat. Even though Q often provided a lot of comic relief, he could be seriously dangerous and in "Q Who", people died (indirectly) because of him. I think the original post provides a solid argument for the theory I've heard before that the writers were never quite sure where they were going with Q...over the course of TNG, he seemed to evolve in a way that made it unclear what his ultimate purpose was.

He wasn't exactly simply a recurring villain, there were times when he seemed almost like a friend (albeit a distrustful, selfish, and dangerous friend), and yes, times when he seemed to be merely a pest. Thankfully, the ambiguity of his purpose didn't stop stop him from being consistently fascinating and entertaining (in my opinion, even on Voyager, a show on which I hate every episode I've seen except his).

 

[rahullak]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I wonder though....

I've just got myself a copy of I,Q written by John deLancie and Peter David. It's written entirely in the first-person of Q.

Here's one of the quotes from the I,Q:

"I travel, I test, and (with any luck) I’m able to raise some species a bit higher than they were before making my acquaintance."

The book itself is brilliantly humorous, engaging and thought-provoking...who wouldn't want to see Q's glorious condescension of all beings, especially Picard, and see Picard rise to the challenge and match him wit for wit...Awesome stuff....

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

True, he wasn't a standard villain, but he deserves a lot more credit than being compared to that guy. Mudd was a joke. He was never a serious threat. Even though Q often provided a lot of comic relief, he could be seriously dangerous and in "Q Who", people died (indirectly) because of him.

The way I remember that episode, Picard was somewhat culpable as well because he could have asked Q to call it off rather than goad him by saying they were capable of handling anything they run into.

I always saw Q's actions as being a foil to Picard's strengths and failings, in particular, his arrogance. I think his actions in showing Picard what would have happened if he had not been stabbed were really quite benevolent in the long run.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Q was dangerous but by the end of the TNG series I believe he was definitely something more than just Q the monster, he took Picard through a tempering process and Picard came out of the fire a better man.

As a quick side note, I would have loved to have seen Q in one of the TNG films, however I think he could easily work in Kirk's time too in one of the new films. I have often wondered why they didn't use John De Lancie's character in the films. Q in JJ's universe could work today, using De Lancie with Q he would have to be older but that could work with a young Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, and Bones McCoy we could get a different chemistry than we have seen already and it would be fresh and new. If Kirk were to go through a his own crucible under Q what would he come out like. Q could play the father figure, or Q could be the wise Priest, he could bring in that classic humor that would fit with old Trek and he would certainly be no Harry Mudd.

Q was a great idea and character in Star Trek and demonstrates the sophistication that Star Trek had. I feel that the story-telling had lost that kind of intellect by Enterprise with it's terribly obvious messages and unrealisticly flawless human characters, who should have been far more three-dimensional than they were portrayed.

I would like a more ambiguous character like Q in future Star Trek stories, not the god-like powers, but the ability to question the main characters and their motives again. I think we could find that in old characters like Commander Kor who could easily come back as a noble yet dangerous Klingon who challenges Kirk again as an antagonist, even to tempt Kirk in someway, either through anger or glory. We need something other than another Nero who was two-dimensional (he still worked in XI). Khan could be brought back but take away Khan's anger and need for revenge, give him some good and noble qualities, give him some questions for Kirk to struggle with, heck he could become Kirk's close friend before having a falling out and a conflict of sorts. So you see ambiguity fits with the modern movie goers sensibilities right now, Q became very ambiguous by the end of TNG and that style of character can and should inspire future Trek characters.

 

[Furtados_Feet]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I hated Q no matter where he was.

 

[Newski]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Let's not forget that Picard may have just hallucinated his experience in "Tapestry".

I like to think back to the Q we saw in "True Q." In the episode, the crew does everything they can to prove Q's ill will, but in truth, he has none.


Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Your... arrogant pretense at being the moral guardians of the universe strikes me as being hollow, Q. I see no evidence that you're guided by a superior moral code or any code whatsoever. You may be nearly omnipotent, and I don't deny that your... parlor tricks are very impressive. But morality, I don't see it. I don't acknowledge it, Q! I would put human morality against the Q's any day. And perhaps that's the reason that we fascinate you so - because our puny behavior shows you a glimmer of the one thing that evades your omnipotence: a moral center. And if so, I can think of no crueler irony than that you should destroy this young woman, whose only crime is that she's too human.

Q: Jean-Luc... Sometimes I think the only reason I come here is to listen to these wonderful speeches of yours.

-From IMDB



Essentially, as it turns out, there was never any problem at all.

 

[Mojochi]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Not a monster or villain, more of an imp at his worst, and a devil's advocate at his best

However, I would not judge him solely by his dealings with Humanity or Picard. Guinan certainly had no respect for him at all, which was borne from an obvious knowledge of some of his history, and the Calamarain undoubtedly wanted harm, torture & possibly death to befall him, for their experiences with him. Even the other Q didn't seem to appreciate him much, unless in need of his experience with Humanity

I think that it's possible his character's evolution, might have seemed a bit haphazard, from start to finish. He was much more menacing in his early appearances, which was gradually steered away from, but I think the direction they went, worked better than whatever they might have originally intended

In the beginning, it was supposed that the Q would erradicate Humanity, given an unfavorable judgement. I figure at some point, that judgement was denied, & the new position would become a non-interference position, which was there position until the last episode, when Q actually assisted Picard in saving humanity, which spoke to either his or their final judgement. Humanity was worth saving.

In the end, I think the one thing we are expected to believe, is that Q warmed up to Humanity, through is dealings with the ENT-D Crew, and ultimately he came to like Picard, which is why he did those things for him, toward the end. Whether that made him a better person, so to speak, is Unknown. It was definitely integral in getting him back in the continuum.

I like to think Picard & crew brought out the very few redeemable qualities he had

 

[apenpaap]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

The Borg were coming anyway, as the Borg in "Regeneration" send them a call. By introducing Enterprise to the Borg, he may have accelerated the Borg's assymilation oplans, but he certainly made the Federation more vigilant. Without that, the invasion of BOBW would likely have assymilated the Federation (even if it may have waited for a couple more years). Also, the knowledge of such a powerful enemy being out there caused the development of the Defiant, Akira, Sovereign and Prometheus, and without those, the Dominion would've had an easy time conquering the Federation. So overall, I think Q did the Federation a huge service.

 

[Anika Hanson]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I always saw Q more as a mischevious type but not as a villian. I think he simply did not think about the consequences of his actions and due to his superiority complex probably wouldnt have cared even if he could have forseen what it would lead to. But I dont believe he intentionally set out to cause harm. I also think that somewhere deep down he felt that he was doing mankind a favour and had some strange sense of a duty of care to them, although im not sure if this was his actual role or just how he percieved himself.

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Thankfully, the ambiguity of his purpose didn't stop stop him from being consistently fascinating and entertaining (in my opinion, even on Voyager, a show on which I hate every episode I've seen except his).

Are you kidding me? As in his publicity stunt in DS9, Q seemed largely irrelevant and redundant as a character, he was "tamed", he was unnecessary after TNG concluded. And above all "Q and the Grey" was anti-climatic and silly drivel in comparison to vastly superior VOY episodes like "Year of Hell", "Timeless", "Message in a Bottle", and "Drone". I liked "Death Wish" though.

John de Lancie was a memorable supporting cast member and his Q character was very Puck-like, but his episodes in TNG from the start veered a lot in quality, with most them actually being quite terrible - I loved "Tapestry", "Deja Q", and "All Good Things", but "Encounter at Far Point" was a pretty poor episode, while "True Q" was average at best.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Are you kidding me? As in his publicity stunt in DS9, Q seemed largely irrelevant and redundant as a character, he was "tamed", he was unnecessary after TNG concluded. And above all "Q and the Grey" was anti-climatic and silly drivel in comparison to vastly superior VOY episodes like "Year of Hell", "Timeless", "Message in a Bottle", and "Drone". I liked "Death Wish" though.

John de Lancie was a memorable supporting cast member and his Q character was very Puck-like, but his episodes in TNG from the start veered a lot in quality, with most them actually being quite terrible - I loved "Tapestry", "Deja Q", and "All Good Things", but "Encounter at Far Point" was a pretty poor episode, while "True Q" was average at best.

Well I guess I'm biased. I really enjoyed all of Q's TNG appearances. I don't think a single one was less than a highlight of its respective season. I will grant you that "True Q" lacked the spark of some of the other Q episodes because it had Q interacting more with a new character than the crew (and what's always worked best about him is how he interacts with Enterprise crew members), but there were still some classic moments there with him and the crew, like turning Crusher into a dog and asking Picard if they should look like "pals". I'll agree that "Encounter at Farpoint" is quite flawed, but I believe you should cut it some slack since it was the series opener and the show was still working out its kinks.

"Year of Hell" is actually one of the few Voyager episodes I've seen and I absolutely loathed it. I'm surprised that so many people here like it. I didn't understand what was going on in it and found it so boring that I couldn't motivate myself to try to understand. It actually turned me off from watching more Voyager.

I won't argue against the assertion that Q's Voyager appearances (and his one DS9 appearance) were a huge step down in quality from his TNG ones, but they were still entertaining in fits and starts. I think much of "The Q and the Grey" was dull, but I loved his hitting on Janeway.

In her scenes with Q, she showed more personality and likability than she did in any other episodes I saw her in. I generally found the characters on Voyager bland, and in my opinion Q brought out their personalities more by annoying them so much. I thought Janeway had great chemistry with with him...not as good as Picard, but still good.

"Q2" was an insufferably irritating episode at the beginning with how obnoxious Q's kid was, but once he began his 'redemption' arc, I thought the story picked up nicely.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I thing Q was only truly Q at TNG, however on DS9 and Voyager he was the joker, someone you couldn't take seriously, so when you think of Q don't think of those episodes on those shows because they got him wrong on those shows. Try and only remember Q from TNG because that was his home and where Q was important.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

I agree, Q's appearances on DS9 and Voyager were unnecessary and it would be no huge loss if they'd never happened, but as a big fan of Q and a Voyagerhater, I think he definitely helped that show and it benefited from his presence more than he benefited from being on it. He brought some much needed life to that show, even if his 'adventures' and character on it were significantly more slight and less interesting than they were on TNG.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Monster? Q the teacher in "Tepestry", Q the judge in "All Good Thi

Q's major story ended with TNG IMO. No need for him beyond that.

And you're a VOY hater? Nuts.