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Money

Well, if they're called credits, it stands to reason that they aren't physical currency. We already use a credit-based system, one that generally relies on plastic cards -- cards that contain identification allowing vendors to connect to our financial institutions in order to record the credit-based transactions. Of course, the credit needs to be backed up with money, but that money is increasingly a purely electronic entity -- rather than sending cash to the bank that issues my credit card, I write them a check, which is permission to transfer funds from my other bank -- a transaction that's probably purely electronic. With a debit card, you can combine those two operations into a single electronic transaction. These days, there's increasingly little need for money to exist in any physical form at all.

Perhaps people in the 23rd century use a similar system but one that's more streamlined, like the debit card process. They have accounts in the UFP computer system, into which their employers deposit "credits" that they can then draw on to purchase things. And perhaps they identify themselves biometrically instead of with magnetic strips on plastic cards, thus making it an even more intangible system. Hence Kirk's inability to adapt to the use of paper money and credit cards in a 1986 pizzeria.
 
90% of most money in in the present day circulation is "broad money" which is bank account balances and such. Actual currency is only the remaining 10%. Most currency passes in the form of cheques and other bank-based transactions.
 
Did they show Quark getting fingerprint scans for transactions in DS9?
 
Picard does say in First Contact that money's no longer the driving force in people's lives. which sounds more like they have money, tehy just don't depend on it.

Except the reason he brought it up is that he was dodging a question about how much the Enterprise-E cost to build.

PICARD: The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century.
LILY: No money? That means you don't get paid?
PICARD: The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity.

It sure sounds like the writer's intent was no money, no problems, but since we've established that doesn't make sense... I think I have a way to read it.

You probably could put a credit-value on a starship, but Picard wasn't entirely sure how to explain it. I mean, how do you work out an exchange rate between a refugee camp and a post-scarcity economy three hundred years in the future? It's not like he could index the price of a loaf of bread and go from there, especially during a casual conversation. He might've been about to give a primer on the money-analogue of the 24th century, but lost his train of thought when Lily objected to him not drawing a salary. I'm sure he does, in fact, get paid, but he was just scandalized that Lily had such base concerns.

Then the conversation got interrupted because they'd wandered in a borg-controlled section of the ship.
 
Yes, but I was proposing a "what-if" scenario -- what if there were Federation Credit notes? What would they look like?

But that strikes me as an oxymoron, because if there were physical currency, they wouldn't be called credits. That word specifically means hypothetical, abstract money.
 
Even in a no currency future, "paper" currency and coinage could still exist for ceremonial purposes, gifts and also provides for the "recordless exchanges," not that you're doing anything illegal of course. One of the reasons the Ferengi might like gold-pressed latinum as opposed to electronic funds transfers is that there no traceable record. Even with Humans, in a interesting science fiction 24th century, you may not wish all your purchases to be noticed or backtracked.

Yes, but I was proposing a "what-if" scenario -- what if there were Federation Credit notes? What would they look like?
In TUC McCoy said "I'd give real money if he'd shut-up." So maybe physical "Real" money looks like ...

1real.jpg
 
Even in a no currency future, "paper" currency and coinage could still exist for ceremonial purposes, gifts and also provides for the "recordless exchanges," not that you're doing anything illegal of course. One of the reasons the Ferengi might like gold-pressed latinum as opposed to electronic funds transfers is that there no traceable record. Even with Humans, in a interesting science fiction 24th century, you may not wish all your purchases to be noticed or backtracked.

Also some of the more retrograde amongst the populace (such as Picard's brother, who refused to allow replicators in the home), might prefer real currency on principle.
 
Didn't Tuvok mention on screen that the monetary economy on Earth had been reformed/abolished in the late 22nd Century?

I thought that was why the ENT novels freely referred to a money-based Earth economy while the rest don't.
 
^ Which makes it even less likely to be true, really. How much does Paris know about the economy? Probably not a whole lot. :lol:

If it *had* been Tuvok, then I could accept it, as Tuvok - being a Vulcan - would be an expert on topics like that. But not a fly-boy like Paris.
 
Ah racism and stereotyping.

Since Paris is supposed to be an expert on history, i trust his opinion.
 
Well, it may have been gone on Earth by then, but we know from TOS that there was still plenty of commerce going on elsewhere in human-populated space, and that Starfleet personnel received pay of some kind.

Anyway, Tom Paris is knowledgeable about 20th-century pop-culture history. That doesn't necessarily make him an expert on late 22nd-century economics.
 
^ Don't let Hal Turner see those. It'll give him another conspiracy to believe in. ;)

And I'm not being racist or stereotypical about Tuvok. He's smarter because we *know* he is - we've seen it. More to the point, Tuvok was alive during the 23rd century - Paris was not.

Besides, we also know that Tuvok and Janeway were present when they tried to buy - yes, BUY - an artifact from a Vulcan merchant, who immediately jacked up the price when he realized that his customers were Starfleet officers.
 
What would a Federation Credit note look like, anyway?

I feel a challenge coming on... :devil:
Like this maybe:
http://www.trekplace.com/fj-gallery-credits.html?

Cool!

It does present an interesting assumption -- that there'd be a different Credit design for every Federation Member State. Presumably akin to the way the Euro coins' obverse sides are chosen by each European Union Member State.
 
It seems important to me to draw a distinction between the use of a monetary system and capitalism. The use of "credits" within the Federation is canonical; I believe the first mention came in the first-season Star Trek episode, "Errand of Mercy."

From The 34th Rule, in a scene between Ben Sisko and his son:
“I know,” Jake said. “Well, as far as the Ferengi are concerned, I think it’s important for you to realize that it’s because you believe so deeply in your own philosophy--including the Federation Constitution, Starfleet regulations, and the Prime Directive--that it’s difficult for you to credit not only a foreign notion of right and wrong, but something that was previously considered wrong in Earth’s past. Capitalism and greed almost destroyed our world.”

“And yet, somehow it seems to work for the Ferengi,” Sisko said, shaking his head at the strangeness of the idea. Jake shrugged his shoulders comically, and Sisko chuckled.

And from Provenance of Shadows:
The stock market panic, McCoy thought, the phrase triggering an old memory, probably from one of the Earth survey courses he’d attended in school. Throughout human history, he knew, there had been numerous economic disruptions in capitalistic nations around the world, at least before the development and implementation of the Rostopovich-Batista safeguards. As he recalled now, the 1930s had been a period of fiscal turmoil in many countries, including in the United States of America. This had been one of several eras branded as the Great Depression.
 
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