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Money in TrekLit: A society without currency?

adamczar

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
I finished reading Vanguard: Harbinger yesterday evening (after wanting more David Mack after Destiny). I don't want to rehash everything about the book that has probably already been discussed countless times over (except to say it was grand!), but I was wondering about a particular part of the story that got me thinking about the Trek universe as a whole, that is... how money is used in the future.

It's a well known fact in Star Trek that humanity has evolved so much that we no longer work for money. As Picard said in FC, "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives," etc. If we take him literally, he doesn't just mean that there is no paper money, but that there is no wealth of any kind.

I wonder if any of us really have any idea of how that would actually work? I tend to think that that concept is so alien to us that we tend to glaze over it.

There is a part in Harbinger where a character pulls out a credit chip and worries about how he'll be able to put more credits on it. I am in no way insinuating anything negative, but it seems to me that in all the Trek stories I've seen or read, the only difference between our economy today and the economy of the future is that money is called "credits" instead of "money." Surely this isn't what Picard meant?

Again -- not singling out Harbinger here, it was merely the spark that ignited this thought.

I guess my question to anyone, especially the TrekLit writers, is: how do you, specifically, try to convey a society without money? In our world, "money makes the world go 'round." If it were something else--like, the "greater good"--would there really be no overt difference in our societies?
 
It's a well known fact in Star Trek that humanity has evolved so much that we no longer work for money. As Picard said in FC, "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives," etc. If we take him literally, he doesn't just mean that there is no paper money, but that there is no wealth of any kind.
Before the thread devolve in the usual "the Federation: communist or not? YOU decide!" fare, I will point out that Picard just said that the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving factor, not that it doesn't exist. Sure my choice of career was not driven by the opportunity of getting laid, but if it comes because of it, it's very welcome! :lol:
 
^ Oh, interesting. I suppose that makes sense.

OTOH, Lily asked something like "how much did this ship cost?" And Picard said, "the economics of the future work a little differently..." (I can't remember word for word.) It insinuated that the cost of the Enterprise was a non-issue, that it was built without having to pay for materials or labor. Following that train of thought is how I arrived at the conclusion that currency doesn't really exist.
 
^ Oh, interesting. I suppose that makes sense.

OTOH, Lily asked something like "how much did this ship cost?" And Picard said, "the economics of the future work a little differently..." (I can't remember word for word.) It insinuated that the cost of the Enterprise was a non-issue, that it was built without having to pay for materials or labor. Following that train of thought is how I arrived at the conclusion that currency doesn't really exist.
Well, that's just an interpretation. The meaning of Picard's reply could just have been "The best approximation i could give you about the cost of the ship is one million Zottojoules of condensed matter-energy", but didn't had the time or the need to explain that.
 
Well, the first thing to remember is that Vanguard is set during the TOS era, and in TOS, they still used money. (Example: Cyrano Jones haggling over the price of a tribble in "The Trouble With Tribbles.")

The other thing to keep in mind is that later Star Trek has actually been incredibly inconsistent about the idea that the Federation uses no money. In TNG's "The Survivors," for instance, Rishon Uxbridge calls her husband a "starving student" when she met him, which makes no sense if she's not trying to say that he had less wealth than most people during his time in university. Quark sold his damaged shuttle for scrap on Earth in order to buy a ticket on a transport back to Deep Space 9 in "Little Green Men." The Orion Syndicate operates within the Federation, which I don't see how it could do if there was no monetary system at all, and they even rob the Bank of Bolias, a Federation Member world, in "Honor Among Thieves." In "The Gift," Janeway describes a Vulcan merchant jacking up the price of a meditation lamp upon seeing that Janeway and Tuvok were Starfleet officers -- which makes no sense if there's no money or if he doesn't think Starfleet officers make more money than most of his customers. In "Author, Author," the Doctor's publishers rush to put out a draft of his holo-novel Photons Be Free without his permission, and there's no rational reason for them to have done that unless they were eager to make money off of it. When Quark got his cousin Gaila released from a Federation prison in "The Magnificent Ferengi," he had to pay a fine. And Julian Bashir's father describes having run his own shuttle transport business, ferrying customers about, in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" In "Encounter At Farpoint," Dr. Crusher bought a roll of clothe on the Bandi homeworld and had her account on the Enterprise billed. In TNG's "The Price," the Federation offered to pay millions of Federation credits to the Barzans for access to their wormhole. And numerous characters paid Quark in Federation credits on DS9. Yanas Tigan, Ezri's mother, owns a mining company on the planet New Sydney, and the Trill are clearly Federation Members.

In any event, whilst the replicator certainly opens things up for an economic system that is fundamentally different from that of modern capitalism and that has eliminated poverty as we know it today -- if there are poor people in the UFP, they probably live in a state of luxury and security relative to what the poor today live in -- this article nicely encapsulates why it is that the idea of a moneyless economy is an economic fantasy that can simply never happen.

ETA:

Given the extreme destruction suffered by numerous Federation worlds in the Destiny trilogy, it will be interesting to see if the Federation is able to keep up its supposed no-money economy, or if they end up reviving the Federation Credit as a widespread form of economic organization in order to rebuild.
 
^ Oh, interesting. I suppose that makes sense.

OTOH, Lily asked something like "how much did this ship cost?" And Picard said, "the economics of the future work a little differently..." (I can't remember word for word.) It insinuated that the cost of the Enterprise was a non-issue, that it was built without having to pay for materials or labor. Following that train of thought is how I arrived at the conclusion that currency doesn't really exist.

Kirk claims it doesn't in ST IV - When asked "Don't tell me, you don't have money in the future," he says "well, we don't."
 
This is my take on it, originally posted at Memory Beta (and slightly edited)...

In a society where replicators are common household items (RE:the discussion between Picard's brother and wife in Family), the need to accumulate wealth would not be a huge priority. That said, there has been evidence of some sort of financial system in every incarnation of Trek, so my feeling is that while hard currency that you keep in your wallet no longer exists and payment for basic necessities aren't a concern for the average person, money does still exist, just not in a form that we recognize today.

We have seen humans who are greedy and only out for the cash (Vash), humans who can't hold down a job (Richard Bashir) and yet maintain a decent standard of living, and even Vulcans who see the logic in accumulating a little extra cash (the conversation between Janeway and Tuvok in The Gift).

Look at it this way: a human on Earth can live his or her entire life on Earth without needing money because replicators provide for food, clothing and other basic needs. However, if you want to purchase a luxury item (Scotty's "I just bought a boat" in ST6), or make clothes out of non-replicated material (Crusher's purchase of a bolt of cloth in Encounter at Farpoint where she tells the vendor to charge it to her account), have a drink at Quark's or take that dream vacation to Risa, then you need some form of currency/credit.
 
This is my take on it, originally posted at Memory Beta (and slightly edited)...

In a society where replicators are common household items (RE:the discussion between Picard's brother and wife in Family), the need to accumulate wealth would not be a huge priority. That said, there has been evidence of some sort of financial system in every incarnation of Trek, so my feeling is that while hard currency that you keep in your wallet no longer exists and payment for basic necessities aren't a concern for the average person, money does still exist, just not in a form that we recognize today.

We have seen humans who are greedy and only out for the cash (Vash), humans who can't hold down a job (Richard Bashir) and yet maintain a decent standard of living, and even Vulcans who see the logic in accumulating a little extra cash (the conversation between Janeway and Tuvok in The Gift).

Look at it this way: a human on Earth can live his or her entire life on Earth without needing money because replicators provide for food, clothing and other basic needs. However, if you want to purchase a luxury item (Scotty's "I just bought a boat" in ST6), or make clothes out of non-replicated material (Crusher's purchase of a bolt of cloth in Encounter at Farpoint where she tells the vendor to charge it to her account), have a drink at Quark's or take that dream vacation to Risa, then you need some form of currency/credit.

That's pretty much my take on it, too. A person can live a healthy, comfortable life without money, but if they want luxuries, they have to earn it.
 
Wasn't there also a late (7th season or thereabouts) TNG episode where Riker cashes in all of his Federation credit vouchers so that he can get Quark to give him information?
 
Kirk claims it doesn't in ST IV - When asked "Don't tell me, you don't have money in the future," he says "well, we don't."
That's not really a convincing example. In the context of that scene, he is explaining why he has no 20th-century paper currency. He might as well have meant that the 23rd-century UFP doesn't use paper-and-coin currency within its own borders. It's also easier for him to say "Well, we don't" as his excuse when the check comes than to begin a lengthy explanation of a credit-based economy.
 
I think the Federation Credit is used for trade with those not in the Federation, at some value agreed upon between the governments. Within the Federation, a strong implication has been made that there's no currency system in formal use. I imagine time and energy are kept track of more closely, and certain things are restricted to the degree that they can't be used too capriciously...but I think the fiction is telling us that this is a world where people basically don't HAVE the desires that would seem to quickly make a shambles of such a system in our era.

Some fans criticize this heavily, and I do find it interesting that those people can accept faster-than-light travel more easily than they can accept the idea that people can change. Neither is particularly realistic, but both have a place in science fiction, and particularly in Trek, where money is just a non-issue. (God, those FASA RPG adventures were all so money-oriented, what with Starfleet captains making deals with criminals for money and BS like that...nothing could have less to do with Trek, or pull me out of an adventure faster.)
 
but I think the fiction is telling us that this is a world where people basically don't HAVE the desires that would seem to quickly make a shambles of such a system in our era.

Some fans criticize this heavily, and I do find it interesting that those people can accept faster-than-light travel more easily than they can accept the idea that people can change.

I can accept details like warp drive and transporters because they're essentially just the structure that makes the story go. Besides, when you look at all the technological progress we've seen in the last 300 years, warp drive doesn't seem so far fetched within the next 300 years that I'm unable to suspend disbelief for a good story.

What doesn't work for me is characters and stories that don't feel true. When you look at a character like Captain Picard, you know deep down that he can't be this perfected person who is entirely beyond the baser instincts. A good story would show him transcending those instincts, but not living entirely without them. It just rings false.

Gene Roddenberry meant us to assume that humanity evolved so much in a few hundred years. In reality, it was more about our technology evolving. The Federation is a techno-paradise let's be honest. To some degree it seems like people in Star Trek are good simply because they have no particular reason to be bad. Sometimes people do bad things just to put food on the table. In Star Trek, that food just comes out of the wall for free.

I guess what I'm saying is that Gene Roddenberry was operating from the notion that humanity is perfectible, and that technology would help us to achieve that perfection. History hasn't borne out either of these ideas, and I doubt that will change in the 300 years.

That said, Trek Lit has done a pretty admirable job working within the dictates of Star Trek. The complexities and realities are presented much better than they were in television Star Trek.
 
This is my take on it, originally posted at Memory Beta (and slightly edited)...

In a society where replicators are common household items (RE:the discussion between Picard's brother and wife in Family), the need to accumulate wealth would not be a huge priority. That said, there has been evidence of some sort of financial system in every incarnation of Trek, so my feeling is that while hard currency that you keep in your wallet no longer exists and payment for basic necessities aren't a concern for the average person, money does still exist, just not in a form that we recognize today.

We have seen humans who are greedy and only out for the cash (Vash), humans who can't hold down a job (Richard Bashir) and yet maintain a decent standard of living, and even Vulcans who see the logic in accumulating a little extra cash (the conversation between Janeway and Tuvok in The Gift).

Look at it this way: a human on Earth can live his or her entire life on Earth without needing money because replicators provide for food, clothing and other basic needs. However, if you want to purchase a luxury item (Scotty's "I just bought a boat" in ST6), or make clothes out of non-replicated material (Crusher's purchase of a bolt of cloth in Encounter at Farpoint where she tells the vendor to charge it to her account), have a drink at Quark's or take that dream vacation to Risa, then you need some form of currency/credit.

That's pretty much my take on it, too. A person can live a healthy, comfortable life without money, but if they want luxuries, they have to earn it.
That sounds pretty good to me too. It really does explain how they can not be worried about needing money, but at the same time we see them using money.
 
(God, those FASA RPG adventures were all so money-oriented, what with Starfleet captains making deals with criminals for money and BS like that...nothing could have less to do with Trek, or pull me out of an adventure faster.)
Tell me about it... I'm still playing some variations of those, even if we are using a different rule system. My game referee is in love with FASA and their universe, and keep running in their shoes. :borg:

What doesn't work for me is characters and stories that don't feel true. When you look at a character like Captain Picard, you know deep down that he can't be this perfected person who is entirely beyond the baser instincts. A good story would show him transcending those instincts, but not living entirely without them. It just rings false.

Gene Roddenberry meant us to assume that humanity evolved so much in a few hundred years. In reality, it was more about our technology evolving. The Federation is a techno-paradise let's be honest. To some degree it seems like people in Star Trek are good simply because they have no particular reason to be bad. Sometimes people do bad things just to put food on the table. In Star Trek, that food just comes out of the wall for free.
I agree with you, but not entirely. I agree that human nature can't go away like that, and that we are not likely to "evolve" beyond our basest instinct in a few hundred years. However, I don't see necessarily greed as an inherent instinct of man, especially in a society where resources are virtually unlimited and food come out of the wall for free. Humans crave status, but what status is depends on society. Being rich is only an indicator of an high social standing. If anybody could just replicate gold out of the replimat at the same energy cost of, say, lead, gold will lose any inherent value and any reason for social standing. In the Federation, high status would means an high-profile job that helps the community and is admired and respected by all, like a starship captain. We know that it's an one-in-a-million job. In that case, human (natural) ambition would strive for that, not for valueless gold. Nobody would care what you own, but what you do, and you will get your social standing accordingly. That would resolve the contrast between human competitive nature and the supposed lack of money in the Federation.
 
I agree with you, but not entirely. I agree that human nature can't go away like that, and that we are not likely to "evolve" beyond our basest instinct in a few hundred years. However, I don't see necessarily greed as an inherent instinct of man, especially in a society where resources are virtually unlimited and food come out of the wall for free. Humans crave status, but what status is depends on society. Being rich is only an indicator of an high social standing. If anybody could just replicate gold out of the replimat at the same energy cost of, say, lead, gold will lose any inherent value and any reason for social standing. In the Federation, high status would means an high-profile job that helps the community and is admired and respected by all, like a starship captain. We know that it's an one-in-a-million job. In that case, human (natural) ambition would strive for that, not for valueless gold. Nobody would care what you own, but what you do, and you will get your social standing accordingly. That would resolve the contrast between human competitive nature and the supposed lack of money in the Federation.

Right. Greed would fall out of vogue in a society with infinite resources as assuredly as murder would in a society where people couldn't be killed. Humanity didn't change, the rules of the game did. The question is, how would 24th Century humans behave if their creature comforts were removed? Would Picard remain every bit as noble if he had nothing but the clothes on his back and no idea where his next meal was coming from? Would his children retain those values? His grandchildren? If not, than humanity hasn't truly become "better". Our technology might have, but not us. Which leaves us with the same old normal people with a nicer paint job.
 
I guess what I'm saying is that Gene Roddenberry was operating from the notion that humanity is perfectible, and that technology would help us to achieve that perfection. History hasn't borne out either of these ideas, and I doubt that will change in the 300 years.

Actually I'd say history has borne out both of those ideas. Just a century and a half ago, black people were kept as slaves, Native Americans were literally slaughtered for sport, and women had virtually no rights. Just two and a half centuries ago, democracy was virtually unheard of anywhere in the world. The way human beings treat other human beings has improved immensely in considerably less than 300 years. Hell, it's improved immensely in the past 30 years, at least here in the US, at least in certain respects. And technology has brought about ethical improvements as well, by giving us better medical tools to save lives, by helping us learn about threats to our environment and ourselves and devise solutions, by giving us forensic tools to make sure we catch criminals and exonerate the innocent, and by giving us recording and communication technologies that allow us to expose corruption and oppression and bring knowledge and truth to those that would formerly have had it hidden from them by oppressors.

The "evolution" we're talking about here isn't biological, but cultural. "Human nature" is broad enough to encompass everything from Hitler to Gandhi, but culture is a powerful means of molding that nature, of promoting and developing some aspects of our behavior and discouraging others. And cultures can evolve very rapidly, and they can evolve in ways that promote more ethical behavior. Heck, there are already cultures in the world that don't raise people to value monetary wealth; think of the Native American potlatch tradition, in which you gain prestige based not on how much you acquire but how much you can give away to others. Someone who assumes that "human nature" equals the current values of Western society and can never change much beyond that would assume that only an alien civilization could have such a "backward" set of values, but they'd be wrong. Human cultures have evolved wildly different values over the course of history, and sometimes they've done it within a generation or two.

So are we perfectible? That depends on how you define the word. Perfection can never be achieved, but that doesn't mean it can't be approached. We can all make ourselves better if we work at it and don't let down our guard. Either way, though, there's no reason to doubt that it's possible for a future human society, in 300 years or possibly much sooner, to be egalitarian, devoted to peace, and largely unconcerned with acquisition. All of those are individually within the established range of real human cultures in history. The one implausibility is its uniformity, the apparent disappearance of cultural diversity among humans.
 
I haven't read Destiny yet (soon, I promise, just have to finish ATFW/P and Articles), so don't spoil it for me, but even aside from what potentially is within those pages, I think one of the more interesting aspects of trek and treklit post-Dominion War has been analyzing at what point Star Trek's utopian future falls apart. The Kill/Heal duology, in particular, is fascinating in this regard, as are parts of what I've already read in War/Peace about it. The same qualities that made them Zife and Azernal leaders in the Dominion War contributed to an incident Picard called the Federation's darkest hour...and it rings very true, to me.

I think TNG the show wanted to make some larger point about how we'd all bettered ourselves, but more recent shows and books have delved more deeply into exactly the downsides of what humanity still is.

As a high school teacher, I can tell you it's seriously weird how differently certain students act in different classrooms; I agree with Christopher's idea that Trek is just showing us a culture that emphasizes different aspects of human nature. In the right context, the human drive to "play along" or fit in makes just about everyone act honorably and kindly. I can see that on a day-to-day basis at this job. I mean, not everyone acts nice, but more than you'd think. It's just a question of culture, and the replicator-driven egalitarian culture we see is really not that hard for me to believe, as we still definitely see those darker sides of humanity roughly every third novel anyway.
 
Right. Greed would fall out of vogue in a society with infinite resources as assuredly as murder would in a society where people couldn't be killed. Humanity didn't change, the rules of the game did. The question is, how would 24th Century humans behave if their creature comforts were removed? Would Picard remain every bit as noble if he had nothing but the clothes on his back and no idea where his next meal was coming from? Would his children retain those values? His grandchildren? If not, than humanity hasn't truly become "better". Our technology might have, but not us. Which leaves us with the same old normal people with a nicer paint job.
I agree with you, and I think DS9 was quite clear in that field. As Sisko said, it's easy to be a saint in paradise. Looking at Star Trek's hypothetical future, society changed thanks to a technological leap. If that would be lost, society would change again. That's how evolution (even cultural evolution) works, responding to changes in the environment. There is no fixed plan from point A to point B. Moral or ethical categories need not apply necessarily. We can see some changes as positive and other as negative, but that's only subjective (Klingons would surely appreciate if that Federation culture is "evolving" to a more warlike and expansionist attitude, for example).

Heck, there are already cultures in the world that don't raise people to value monetary wealth; think of the Native American potlatch tradition, in which you gain prestige based not on how much you acquire but how much you can give away to others. Someone who assumes that "human nature" equals the current values of Western society and can never change much beyond that would assume that only an alien civilization could have such a "backward" set of values, but they'd be wrong. Human cultures have evolved wildly different values over the course of history, and sometimes they've done it within a generation or two.
Bravo. Said better that I could ever do.
 
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words words

I actually agree with pretty much all of that, without even really changing anything I said. It's just, when you think about how fragile all of that progress is you're not likely to brag about how awesome we are. Sure, out treatment of women, minorities, everyone, is way better than it used to be, but we could lose it all so easily. Roddenberry just seemed so arrogant about what would make people perfect, when all that should just make you humble and grateful instead. But we're all pretty much saying the same thing at this point.
 
Within the Federation, a strong implication has been made that there's no currency system in formal use.

The problem with this interpretation is that we've seen currency used within the Federation, and we've seen other indirect forms of evidence that it's been used.

I imagine time and energy are kept track of more closely, and certain things are restricted to the degree that they can't be used too capriciously...but I think the fiction is telling us that this is a world where people basically don't HAVE the desires that would seem to quickly make a shambles of such a system in our era.

Some fans criticize this heavily, and I do find it interesting that those people can accept faster-than-light travel more easily than they can accept the idea that people can change.

Well, it's sort of like the difference between Realism and Naturalism. The two often go together in modern drama, but they are different. Naturalism is when a work of art -- especially theatre, film, or television -- that seeks to accurately re-create the physical work. The set may be made of wood, but you're supposed to be fooled into thinking it's whatever it's representing (the bridge of a submarine, a lobby of the White House, whatever). Realism, on the other hand, is when a work of art creates or attempts to create characters that are psychologically accurate representations of what real human minds are like.

Obviously there can be varying degrees of both. Star Trek has varying degrees of Naturalism -- obviously, you're not supposed to think that starships are real, but it's good if the sets fit enough of our presumptions about what such a thing would look like if it were real for us to suspend our disbelief.

And people can accept varying degrees of Realism, too. Part of what made The Dark Knight successful is that all of the characters are grounded in Realistic psychologies -- except for the Joker, who is, quite frankly, a completely non-Realistic archetype moreso than a psychologically fleshed-out human mind.

What I think most people can't accept, though, is a show full of Human characters that are psychologically Realistic in every respect except one, and in particular one so fundamental as the desire to have. Especially because, well, we've seen these characters indicate their desires to have. We've seen Tom Paris wanting to own a 20th Century TV. We've seen characters wanting to have a career. We've seen characters wanting to have this, or have that. Well, if the world is full of people who want to have, then that demands a monetary system and always will.

And I think that the other thing that people object to is the idea that wanting to have is bad. It's not. It's placing your wanting to have above moral considerations that's bad -- in other words, greed. And, yes, I think there's a difference between acquisitiveness and greed. Greed is what happens when you put acquisitiveness about everything else, above your concern for other people. To not make that differentiation, especially since acquisitiveness has helped drive so many great technological innovations that have improved the quality of life for millions, is fundamentally irrational and unfair, and, of course, and to portray acquisitiveness so selectively is un-Realistic.

As P. Gardner Goldsmith put it:

This is not to deride the series. I like it. But despite the attempt on the part of the producers to back up facets of the stories with well-researched science, the fact that Gene Roddenberry outlawed money means his creation can be nothing other than fantasy.

The reason is simple. Like Roddenberry, many thinkers have tried to envision a world in which there is no need for money, no market exchange, and no property. And every one of those thinkers, be they followers of John Lennon, Michael Moore, or Karl Marx, has overlooked one key insight: man’s nature does not change.

When people try to fulfill their needs, their varying interests, talents, and skills will prompt each of them to concentrate on what he does best. Such differentiation of labor will allow each to use his capabilities in the most productive way possible. Each person will soon see the benefits of trading some of the fruits of his labor for those of another. The way to maximize one’s labor in a world of differing skills and interests is to enter into market exchange with others, offering what one makes or does well in exchange for what others make or do well. Thus if you are a lumberjack, you can offer wood in exchange for food from the farmer. That way you don’t have to farm and the farmer doesn’t have to cut down trees. Since the two of you are doing what you do best, you are maximizing your work, and there will be more of both products than would exist if you and the farmer had to concentrate on the two forms of labor.

But what if the farmer has already traded for all the wood he needs? In that case, you will have to find a product the farmer does need, approach the producer of that item, and see if that producer needs wood. If he does, you can exchange your wood for the new product, then approach the farmer to finish your original exchange.

This becomes complicated when myriad interests, needs, skills, and products begin to come into play. Therefore, man, in his striving to maximize convenience, gradually evolved a method to facilitate exchange: money.

Money allows all participants to employ a universally recognized medium of exchange. No longer will you have to find a third or fourth or fifth party to trade your lumber to in order to get goods from the farmer. You can use money. You can hold it, spend it, and even lend it for a return sometime in the future. The flexibility of money, with its ability to let disparate persons work in harmony, is (far from Roddenberry’s view) one of the most glorious developments in the history of mankind. Money is the machinery of peace, not of war.

Furthermore, without money, it is impossible for the value of consumer or producer goods to be expressed in a practical way. Prices reflect the countless subjective valuations of sellers and buyers engaging in peaceful exchange. Prices are the result of each participant’s decisions—the essential carriers of information and the indispensable elements of economic calculation. They not only reflect preferences, but also the relative scarcity of goods and resources. Without money, there can be no systematic expression of value or scarcity. Even in Roddenberry’s “Federation,” someone had to buy the “dilithium crystals” for Scotty to use in his famous Engine Room.

Neither is particularly realistic, but both have a place in science fiction, and particularly in Trek, where money is just a non-issue. (God, those FASA RPG adventures were all so money-oriented, what with Starfleet captains making deals with criminals for money and BS like that...nothing could have less to do with Trek, or pull me out of an adventure faster.)

*nods* I don't think anyone has a problem with portraying a future where greed has been eliminated as an acceptable social value, and I don't think anyone has a problem with the idea of a world where there's no more poverty. It's just that, well, the idea that there's no more money is literally impossible, and, further, a completely unrealistic depiction of human psychology. And I don't think a story that posits that humanity's fundamental nature must change for us to have a better future is particularly optimistic -- ultimately, that's just another way of saying, "You're not good enough and a higher power" (be it God in Christianity or the Vulcans in Star Trek) "will have to change you before your world can be a better place to live."
 
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