Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

[Green Lantern]

Yep, Moffat has gone batshit bonkers. Although I always thought he was anyway.

but if RTD originally created this concept, maybe he will write one or two episodes, and maybe it could turn out to be okay.

But this has got Moffat written all over it. It could go 50 50.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yeah, its iffy, to say the least. I don't dislike the idea behind it - but Moffat has proven that he's better at writing for another showrunner than at writing while he is the showrunner.

Here's hoping RTD and Moffat could iron out this plot thread together, and not simply be Moffat running on RTD's vague idea of what could've been.

 

[Green Lantern]

Yeah, maybe if they both worked as show runners.

Yeah, Moffat definitely wrote better under RTD than he did while in charge.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, this sounds pretty bad. I wouldn't mind a cute little joke about it, like when Martha was talking about her cousin. Hell, that could work when the Twelfth Doctor meets Jack.

Jack: "What the hell?!"
Doctor: "Oh, hello Jack. Nice seeing you again."
Jack: "You died. I confirmed that!"
Doctor: "And then I regenerated."
Jack: "...Doctor?"
Doctor: "Someone else you thinking of?"
Jack: "Got to say, I'm not liking this new look."

But this? No, just no.

I remember Russell [T Davies] told me that he had a big old plan as to why there were two Peter Capaldi’s in the Who universe: one in Pompeii and one in Torchwood.

Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I remember Russell [T Davies] told me that he had a big old plan as to why there were two Peter Capaldi’s in the Who universe: one in Pompeii and one in Torchwood.

Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?

Was the connection between Gwen and Gwyneth ever explained on screen? Or was that something that the viewers knew because RTD had talked about it from time to time?

RTD may have had an explanation in mind for why Frobisher and Caecilius looked alike, but there was never a way of using that explanation within Children of Earth because 1) it wasn't relevant to the story and 2) it wouldn't have moved the story forward.

This sounds like Moffat wants to do something with the idea that these characters are connected. I can't think of anything more inward looking than explaining why the Doctor looks like a one-shot guest star from five years ago and a star of a spin-off series from four years ago.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Ugh. Not only that, but it comes from a Davies timey-wimey conspiracy. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to tie-in why The First Doctor and the Abbot of Amboise from The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve, The Second Doctor and Salamander from The Enemy of the World, and The Sixth Doctor and Maxil all look the same.

Sometimes it's just best to leave such things alone.

 

[Starkers]

I remember Russell [T Davies] told me that he had a big old plan as to why there were two Peter Capaldi’s in the Who universe: one in Pompeii and one in Torchwood.

Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?

Was the connection between Gwen and Gwyneth ever explained on screen? Or was that something that the viewers knew because RTD had talked about it from time to time?

RTD may have had an explanation in mind for why Frobisher and Caecilius looked alike, but there was never a way of using that explanation within Children of Earth because 1) it wasn't relevant to the story and 2) it wouldn't have moved the story forward.

This sounds like Moffat wants to do something with the idea that these characters are connected. I can't think of anything more inward looking than explaining why the Doctor looks like a one-shot guest star from five years ago and a star of a spin-off series from four years ago.

Well Ten and Rose definitely comment on the fact that Gwen looks like Gwyneth, so this is another one of those things where it was ok for RTD to do it but not Moffat (That said I think it's a bad idea, and it was a bad idea before)

 

[StCoop]

Well Ten and Rose definitely comment on the fact that Gwen looks like Gwyneth, so this is another one of those things where it was ok for RTD to do it but not Moffat

You're assuming people didn't roll their eyes at that moment?

***

Actors play different parts. Sometimes in a long running show, different parts in that show. It doesn't need explaining to anyone except those whose grasp on reality is pretty shaky. (And they won't believe it!)

 

[Starkers]

It made my eyes roll

I'm perfectly happy to accept that sometimes the Doctor's brain remembers people he sees on this travels and subconsciously incorporates elements into a new regeneration. That makes enough sense, it doesn't need further explanation.

 

[Christopher]

I'm perfectly happy to accept that sometimes the Doctor's brain remembers people he sees on this travels and subconsciously incorporates elements into a new regeneration. That makes enough sense, it doesn't need further explanation.

We already know that when Romana regenerated, she consciously chose to model her appearance on Princess Astra (Lalla Ward) from the previous adventure.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Ugh, not all of the mysteries of the Doctor have to be unraveled. Hopefully there's as much focus on "who the Doctor is" as there is on "who is the Doctor".

 

[Skellington]

It made my eyes roll

I'm perfectly happy to accept that sometimes the Doctor's brain remembers people he sees on this travels and subconsciously incorporates elements into a new regeneration. That makes enough sense, it doesn't need further explanation.

It really doesn't need any explanation at all, but the above would fit in nicely. Or, the TARDIS builds up a library of local humanoids when it's scanning the surrounding area for objects to completely ignore when deciding what to turn into.

 

[Mr Awe]

It made my eyes roll

I'm perfectly happy to accept that sometimes the Doctor's brain remembers people he sees on this travels and subconsciously incorporates elements into a new regeneration. That makes enough sense, it doesn't need further explanation.

I agree with this. And for this idea to warrant an ongoing plot thread, it had better be really, really good!

Mr Awe

 

[Skellington]

I have a suspicion that it might involve Trenzalore and/or some Quantum Leap-style shenanigans. Brrr.

 

[Saga]

Ugh. Not only that, but it comes from a Davies timey-wimey conspiracy. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to tie-in why The First Doctor and the Abbot of Amboise from The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve, The Second Doctor and Salamander from The Enemy of the World, and The Sixth Doctor and Maxil all look the same.

Sometimes it's just best to leave such things alone.

agreed.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

To be honest, if people didn't keep pointing it out, I'd have forgotten he was in Fires of Pompeii. Torchwood:CoE is something I'd remember simply because it was such a long, memorable role, but Fires of Pompeii was a relatively brief role in a forgettable episode. Fires of Pompeii, imo, needs no explanation. CoE also needs no explanation because it's a different show, so reusing actors is more forgivable.

However, I'm all for anything done well, so, as long as it's done well, I don't care.

 

[The Wormhole]

I remember Russell [T Davies] told me that he had a big old plan as to why there were two Peter Capaldi’s in the Who universe: one in Pompeii and one in Torchwood.

Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?

Was the connection between Gwen and Gwyneth ever explained on screen? Or was that something that the viewers knew because RTD had talked about it from time to time?

It was on screen. Journey's End, in the scene where everyone's in the console room getting ready to tow Earth back to the solar system. The Doctor contacts the Torchwood Hub, Gwen answers, appearing on the console's monitor screen and the Doctor and Rose recognize her with the Doctor explaining time/space duplicity.

Wouldn't that just be the time/space duplicity thing that explains why Gwen Cooper so similar to Gwyneth from The Unquiet Dead?

Was the connection between Gwen and Gwyneth ever explained on screen? Or was that something that the viewers knew because RTD had talked about it from time to time?

RTD may have had an explanation in mind for why Frobisher and Caecilius looked alike, but there was never a way of using that explanation within Children of Earth because 1) it wasn't relevant to the story and 2) it wouldn't have moved the story forward.

This sounds like Moffat wants to do something with the idea that these characters are connected. I can't think of anything more inward looking than explaining why the Doctor looks like a one-shot guest star from five years ago and a star of a spin-off series from four years ago.

Well Ten and Rose definitely comment on the fact that Gwen looks like Gwyneth, so this is another one of those things where it was ok for RTD to do it but not Moffat (That said I think it's a bad idea, and it was a bad idea before)

I accepted it when comparing Gwen and Gwyneth simply because it was a joke which they spent one minute on. That's a lot different than making it a plot point relevant to the season's arc, which is the implication I'm getting from the article about Capaldi's other two roles being relevant to the Twelfth Doctor's appearance.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I accepted it when comparing Gwen and Gwyneth simply because it was a joke which they spent one minute on. That's a lot different than making it a plot point relevant to the season's arc, which is the implication I'm getting from the article about Capaldi's other two roles being relevant to the Twelfth Doctor's appearance.

I've decided that I'm okay with this, but only one one condition.

Whatever ties Caecilius, Frobisher, and the twelfth Doctor together also ties together other Capaldi BBC roles including the Angel Islington (Neverwhere), Balthazar (The Nativity), Richelieu (the forthcoming The Musketeers), and Randall Brown (The Hour). I am deliberately leaving out Malcolm Tucker, as he would overlap with John Frobisher. All of these Capaldi characters team up, like aspects of the Eternal Champion, and kick the ass out of Rassilon.

That would make it okay.

 

[The Wormhole]

I accepted it when comparing Gwen and Gwyneth simply because it was a joke which they spent one minute on. That's a lot different than making it a plot point relevant to the season's arc, which is the implication I'm getting from the article about Capaldi's other two roles being relevant to the Twelfth Doctor's appearance.

I've decided that I'm okay with this, but only one one condition.

Whatever ties Caecilius, Frobisher, and the twelfth Doctor together also ties together other Capaldi BBC roles including the Angel Islington (Neverwhere), Balthazar (The Nativity), Richelieu (the forthcoming The Musketeers), and Randall Brown (The Hour). I am deliberately leaving out Malcolm Tucker, as he would overlap with John Frobisher. All of these Capaldi characters team up, like aspects of the Eternal Champion, and kick the ass out of Rassilon.

That would make it okay.

Include Malcolm Tucker and I'm sold. Besides, eight Capaldi characters would make up for not bringing all eight of the living pre-Capaldi Doctors back for the 50th.

 

[diankra]

The weird thing is that noone ever says we need to know why the Abbot of Amboise and Salamander look like the Doctor (or Nyssa/Ann, or Michael Sheard's six characters - three of them medical doctors... surely that can't be a coincidence? Must be some sort of destiny resonance! And is Bret Vyon a descedant of the Brig?)