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MLB Pseudo-Season 2020: Roger, Dodgers

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Danny99 said:
Someone will have to explain to me why stealing signs is so bad. Is it only because it's sneaky and underhanded? Really, it's effective coaching. If you can figure out the signs and give your team the advantage. What am I missing?
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It's not uncommon for a runner on second to try to suss out the catcher's signs and relay them to the batters. In the case of the Red Sox, it's that they were literally using the video replay room, which is not only a violation of the Official Rules, but prior to the 2018 season, Manfred sent out a memo to all 30 teams that basically said "I will fucking bury you if you use video / replay to steal signs."

Edit: Same reason why in the NFL you can't tape an opponent's sideline (oh hi Patriots) and coaches don't get to see real-time video, only photos, on those tablets they all have on the sidelines. You can get ahead by intuition and talent, but you don't get to goose things up with a tech advantage the other team doesn't have.
 
Danny99 said:
Someone will have to explain to me why stealing signs is so bad. Is it only because it's sneaky and underhanded? Really, it's effective coaching. If you can figure out the signs and give your team the advantage. What am I missing?
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I think it's one thing to do your homework, learn and anticipate tendencies, etc. That's good coaching. And that is the best part of the game: did you guess right? Did you take the right pitch? Did your shift work? That's what makes the game fun and entertaining.

It's quite another to use secret technology to learn what's coming in advance.

Imagine it was football instead. A good coach recognizes the formation, down and distance, and knows the tendencies of his opponent, and call a defense based on that. Was he right? Let's find out.

Now imagine a coach has secretly tapped into the communication system between the coach and QB, and is listening as the play is called. Would you consider that fair?
 
Yanks said:
The common denominator? .....

Joey Cora. :thumbdown:
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Wrong Cora. Alex was a coach with Houston in 2017 and became the Red Sox manager in 2018. Joey was a slap-hitting nobody who spent about a decade in the majors in the late '80s and the '90s and last I recall, he's still the third-base coach for the Pirates.
 
Also, the White Sox signed Steve Cishek to a dirt-cheap contract, dealing yet another blow to a Cubs bullpen that is already looking to be terrible this year.

And Theo is still trying to trade Kris Bryant because a team that's worth more than a billion dollars is crying poverty and telling everyone they're broke.
 
So, if my tracking is correct--no guarantees that it is, but I've been looking through transactions for a while today--the Cubs are literally the only team in MLB to not sign a single free agent to an MLB-level contract (they got a few guys on minor-league deals) this offseason. This is a team that makes money hand over fist, has a broken-ass bullpen, hired the veterans' buddy to be their new manager and is trying to trade their MVP third baseman, pleading poverty and saying that they're out of money and can't spend a single cent unless they move salary.

The Ricketts family owns more than half of Wrigleyville.

Guess the old adage is true: You can't become a billionaire without being a shithead and fucking people over.
 
Yikes, they came down hard on the Astros. And yes, Cora should be pretty nervous about this one. For that matter, is Beltran clear of any issues as the new Mets manager? And yeah, looks like Cora dragged some of this with him to the Red Sox, so may be waiting to finish that investigation before they drop the hammer on them as well (only reason he wasn't lit up already; whether to punish him for his actions with the Astros, or double down on it and hit him for actions with the Sox too).

Punishment may at least push teams to clean this up, this is the nuclear option as far as punishment goes. Not too many should be willing to risk that going forward. No more smart watches, video rooms, shit with the center field camera (Yanks aren't clean on that one, if you recall, so may not be wise to gloat), certainly no dummies hitting trash can lids anymore.

Plus side, Sox were likely to suck out loud this year anyway, so as far as punishments, good a time as any... :shrug:
 
I never thought sign stealing was bad, to me it's good baseball-ing if you aren't using tech to do it. Like your player is on second and figures the signs out awesome, tell the batter. If you are sneaking into replay area to learn them Cara should be thrown to the wolves.

But the Red Sox didn't win in 2018 by stealing signs, they did it by having good pitching. 2019 they didn't go anywhere because from day 1 their pitching was horrible.
 
bigdaddy said:
I never thought sign stealing was bad, to me it's good baseball-ing if you aren't using tech to do it
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That's what I said earlier on this page: Every team tries to steal signs, it's just part of the game. Even when I played baseball up through high school when my knee exploded in my senior year, my catcher and I had two backup sets of signs in case we were worried that the other team had picked up our signaling. (It didn't help that our dumbass pitching coach insisted on calling pitches from the dugout, and his signaling had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the head, but Matty and I generally ignored him.)

The Astros, though, were using advanced tech to steal signs. That's dirty. They've also said the Red Sox are under investigation, so I don't think this story is over.
 
Timby said:
Also, the White Sox signed Steve Cishek to a dirt-cheap contract, dealing yet another blow to a Cubs bullpen that is already looking to be terrible this year.

And Theo is still trying to trade Kris Bryant because a team that's worth more than a billion dollars is crying poverty and telling everyone they're broke.
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Timby said:
So, if my tracking is correct--no guarantees that it is, but I've been looking through transactions for a while today--the Cubs are literally the only team in MLB to not sign a single free agent to an MLB-level contract (they got a few guys on minor-league deals) this offseason. This is a team that makes money hand over fist, has a broken-ass bullpen, hired the veterans' buddy to be their new manager and is trying to trade their MVP third baseman, pleading poverty and saying that they're out of money and can't spend a single cent unless they move salary.

The Ricketts family owns more than half of Wrigleyville.

Guess the old adage is true: You can't become a billionaire without being a shithead and fucking people over.
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They keep yapping about the luxury tax, which AFAIK they're already over, right? I'm preparing for a very long season with a 3rd or 4th place finish unless Ross can somehow do some serious motivating of a previously unmotivated team.

As for Cishek. One of, if not the, best bullpen arm last year, but is there anything left in that arm after being abused by Maddon?


Astros' GM and Manager suspended for all of 2020, lose first- and second-round draft picks in 2020 and 2021, and the organization was fined a record $5 million.

Opinions: Is it enough?
 
^Suspending the coaches for a year is a huge deal, that's rare for baseball. The last time I remember that happening was Pete Rose 30 years ago. It's not like if anyone ever does it again they won't suspend them longer.

Timby said:
That's what I said earlier on this page: Every team tries to steal signs, it's just part of the game. Even when I played baseball up through high school when my knee exploded in my senior year, my catcher and I had two backup sets of signs in case we were worried that the other team had picked up our signaling. (It didn't help that our dumbass pitching coach insisted on calling pitches from the dugout, and his signaling had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the head, but Matty and I generally ignored him.)

The Astros, though, were using advanced tech to steal signs. That's dirty. They've also said the Red Sox are under investigation, so I don't think this story is over.
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Yeah I just saw the story on MLB network. They were acting like stealing signs any way was the most awful thing ever, and comparing it to steroids. That it puts a stain on the World Series. It was ridiculous. While this cheating is bad, it's not why the Red Sox won in 2018 and not in 2019, that's 100% pitching. It doesn't do a damn thing to the World Series win to me. I question what goes on in the MLB Network peeps heads, then I remember they are 90% way too biased Yankee fans.

Cara is in some deep shit though. He might not be coaching ever again.
 
Ar-Pharazon said:
They keep yapping about the luxury tax, which AFAIK they're already over, right? I'm preparing for a very long season with a 3rd or 4th place finish unless Ross can somehow do some serious motivating of a previously unmotivated team.
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Spotrac has the Cubs roughly $2 million over the luxury tax, but the incremental fees for going over the tax are simply a drop in the bucket for a team that generates money just by blinking. Ross is a stopgap and I have a strong feeling Theo's leaving after his contract is up following 2021 (he was quoted many times, both in Boston and since he came to Chicago, that he feels ten years is a long-enough time to spend in one job, and after 2021, the core he built will be gone).

Astros' GM and Manager suspended for all of 2020, lose first- and second-round draft picks in 2020 and 2021, and the organization was fined a record $5 million.

Opinions: Is it enough?
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It's definitely harsh, especially since Hinch and Luhnow were informed they'll be on the permanently ineligible list if they ever try any funny business like this again. I'm waiting to see what happens with Boston.
 
This offseason really taints their World Series win and AL Pennant. Though nice to see that ownership got rid of them.
 
Throwing them under the bus? Do we believe nobody else in upper management knew about this?

I mean, they knew Luhnow was a cheat from his St. Louis days.
 
Wow. I'm actually impressed they were fired. I'm sure that's not enough (or even the end of this), but it's something at least.
 
It's not a great look that AJ Hinch was discouraging his players from cheating.
 
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