MLB Pseudo-Season 2020: Roger, Dodgers

[bigdaddy]

While I am not sure how much it would have changed things but the Union fought hard against allowing MLB punish people for drug use so it's kind of both sides were being obtuse.

Jason

Oh I know. They are kind of doing the same BS with the signal stealing, the managers get in trouble but the players don't. They don't want to piss of the player union.

But you can't have a week of how stealing signals will destroy the game of baseball forever and then on Hall of Fame day have people defending steroid use. Stealing signs only helps you know the pitch. Doesn't get you to hit the ball necessarily or help with fielding or running. Steroids help with everything and there is a chance they can get it? That's disgusting to me.

The MLB has the silliest Hall of Fame rules of the major sports leagues. If you don't get enough votes, you fall off the ballot. If you don't get in in your first ten years of eligibility, you fall off the ballot. If you get in, you have to choose one team to be immortalized with forever. Just bizarre.

You got it wrong. After 10 years if you don't reach 75% you fall off the ballot and then there is a vet's committee that makes even less sense the the normal voting.

 

[Jim Klag]

I wonder who the genius is who didn't vote for Jeter.

 

[Kirby]

I wonder who the genius is who didn't vote for Jeter.

I'm guessing someone who liked Mariano Rivera more and wanted him to be the only unanimous inductee.

 

[Timby]

And the fact that the Hall of Fame is getting closer and closer to letting in steroid users as 'best ever' is sick and will destroy the sport more than sign stealing which no one will remember come April.

Oh, stop clutching your pearls. Baseball has never been clean. For God's sake, Babe Ruth was a fat drunk who tried shooting ram testosterone into his ass to see if it would help him build muscle. For decades players weren't facing the best competition in the world because of institutionalized segregation. We literally have spitballers in the Hall of Fame. Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle all used amphetamines, which were passed around clubhouses like candy starting in the '50s and going well through the early 2000s. Guys in the '80s were doing mountains of coke.

Get out of here with this "No True Scotsman" bullshit and suggesting that the guys of yesteryear cheated in a more honorable way or whatever.

 

[bigdaddy]

Oh I know. It's why I thought it was amazing that the sports new people thought that signal cheating was the worst thing in the history of the sport. Baseball is full of cheating and bet placing and criminals and everything. However you want to turn over a new leaf and 'save' the sport for the future, you stop the mistakes of the past and you say no to letting in steroid users from now on.

You can't have sports writers bitch one week of how the signal stealing is awful and then some of them then vote to let known cheaters into the Hall of Fame. It's complete bullshit.

So I guess my problem mainly is the hypocrisy of everything.

 

[Timby]

Oh I know. It's why I thought it was amazing that the sports new people thought that signal cheating was the worst thing in the history of the sport. Baseball is full of cheating and bet placing and criminals and everything. However you want to turn over a new leaf and 'save' the sport for the future, you stop the mistakes of the past and you say no to letting in steroid users from now on.

You can't have sports writers bitch one week of how the signal stealing is awful and then some of them then vote to let known cheaters into the Hall of Fame. It's complete bullshit.

So I guess my problem mainly is the hypocrisy of everything.

So do you advocate for the recall of Mays and Aaron and Mantle from the Hall? If not, you're being intellectually dishonest and you're still playing a game of No True Scotsman. You can't erase the 1990s and the 2000s because you think the way they cheated then was worse. PEDs literally weren't even against the rules of baseball until 2006.

 

[Timby]

Piazza seems pretty content to drink cocktails and soak up the sun in Miami, I'm not sure he'd want to wrangle a bunch of kids and deal with an egomaniac whackjob like Brodie Van Wagenen. If I had to guess, they're going to take another serious look at Eduardo Perez, who was the Mets' second choice if they couldn't get a deal done with Beltran. Luis Rojas is still on staff, and he also interviewed for the opening (though he didn't get a second-round interview). In any case, I wouldn't be shocked if they go internal with the hiring, just because of the short timeframe between now and spring camps opening.

Nailed it. The Mets are finalizing a deal with quality control coach Luis Rojas to be their new manager.

 

[Herbert]

No stripping
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...d-series-titles-says-commissioner-rob-manfred

 

[Jedi_Master]

So do you advocate for the recall of Mays and Aaron and Mantle from the Hall? If not, you're being intellectually dishonest and you're still playing a game of No True Scotsman. You can't erase the 1990s and the 2000s because you think the way they cheated then was worse. PEDs literally weren't even against the rules of baseball until 2006.

This.
The only thing Bonds did "wrong" was be a jerk to the media.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Oh, stop clutching your pearls. Baseball has never been clean. For God's sake, Babe Ruth was a fat drunk who tried shooting ram testosterone into his ass to see if it would help him build muscle. For decades players weren't facing the best competition in the world because of institutionalized segregation. We literally have spitballers in the Hall of Fame. Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle all used amphetamines, which were passed around clubhouses like candy starting in the '50s and going well through the early 2000s. Guys in the '80s were doing mountains of coke.

Get out of here with this "No True Scotsman" bullshit and suggesting that the guys of yesteryear cheated in a more honorable way or whatever.

So because a line was never drawn in the past, they shouldn't bother now? Why not let Pete Rose in? Or Shoeless Joe.

 

[Timby]

So because a line was never drawn in the past, they shouldn't bother now? Why not let Pete Rose in? Or Shoeless Joe.

I think it's wrong to demonize '90s players for steroid allegations when they literally weren't against the rules.

Pete Rose broke Rule 21(d) and voluntarily accepted his ban (in exchange for John Dowd not including evidence that had Rose dead to rights for betting against the Reds in his final report). Players and coaches betting on baseball undermines the integrity of the game in a far deeper and more fundamental way than doping ever could, because if the fix is in, then why the hell should we watch?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As for Shoeless Joe, there seems to be some dispute regarding his supposed involvement in the Black Sox scandal.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I think it's wrong to demonize '90s players for steroid allegations when they literally weren't against the rules.

Pete Rose broke Rule 21(d) and voluntarily accepted his ban (in exchange for John Dowd not including evidence that had Rose dead to rights for betting against the Reds in his final report). Players and coaches betting on baseball undermines the integrity of the game in a far deeper and more fundamental way than doping ever could, because if the fix is in, then why the hell should we watch?

What had they banned by the 90's? Anything?

I guess I'm in the camp of "cheating is cheating", and they've let a lot of guys in who did knowingly cheat, laminated card in the clubhouse or not, let the rest in too.

As for Shoeless Joe, there seems to be some dispute regarding his supposed involvement in the Black Sox scandal.

How easy will that be to prove or disprove, considering it was 112 years ago?

 

[Timby]

Also, beyond that, everyone knew that baseball had a PED problem by 1989. The union knew it, the owners knew it, the writers knew it, the commissioner's office knew it (edit: and Fay Vincent even issued a memo shortly before leaving office saying that PEDs were banned. It was a meaningless memo, because that sort of thing has to be collectively bargained, but the commissioner's office absolutely knew for a long time that there was more than water and Gatorade going through clubhouses). But everyone turned a blind eye when Sosa and McGwire basically rescued baseball and restored it to national prominence with the 1998 home run chase despite both of them being juiced to the gills.

It's incredibly hypocritical to have basked in the riches of the steroid era and then turn around a decade later and basically say those guys are worse than Satan.

What had they banned by the 90's? Anything?

You could get suspended by MLB if you got into legal trouble, or if you did something like show up to work drunk or high. (See: Darryl Strawberry and his frequent entanglements with the police due to his love of nose candy.) But MLB and the MLBPA didn't agree to the Joint Drug Agreement until 2006.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

How easy will that be to prove or disprove, considering it was 112 years ago?

Not very.

Manfred has been petitioned a few times for Joe to be reinstated, but he's always said no, for pretty much the same reason you just gave.

 

[Kronos]

I wonder who the genius is who didn't vote for Jeter.

They are a hero.

 

[Timby]

They are a hero.

There could be only one writer who left Jeter off. Another one would have been disre2pectful.

 

[Timby]

If you get in, you have to choose one team to be immortalized with forever. Just bizarre.

Actually, players don't get to choose which team's hat their (very creepy) plaque is wearing. It used to be that way, but it all changed when Wade Boggs put his plaque up for sale and teams were bidding on it (Tampa Bay was rumored to have offered several hundred thousand dollars for him to go in as a Devil Ray, despite Boggs having two solidly mediocre years with them at the twilight of his career). As a result, the Hall of Fame changed its rules, and now the executive board decides the cap that a player wears when going in, though they do weigh the player's wishes.

The only exception is for players and managers who had exceptional careers with multiple teams, e.g. Mike Mussina, Greg Maddux, Tony La Russa; in that case the Hall offers the inductee the option of going in with a blank cap. (I remember Mussina, in particular, was really torn, because he was lights-out for both the Orioles and the Yankees; he loves Baltimore but he had arguably greater success as a Yankee, so he ultimately opted for the blank cap.)

 

[Timby]

MLBTR is reporting that the Red Sox and Padres are engaged in trade talks regarding Mookie Betts. The word is that Betts goes to San Diego in exchange for Wil Myers--WIL MYERS--and some prospects.

The main stumbling block in trade talks is how much of Myers’ contract the Red Sox would be covering, Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reports, as the Padres want Boston’s obligation “to be much closer to the full value of the contract.” The prospects reportedly being discussed in the trade aren’t any of San Diego’s “top five minor leaguers,” which would mean the likes of Gore or Patino aren’t involved.

Jesus fucking Christ, the MLBPA was so unbelievably stupid to roll over and accept the luxury tax.

 

[Jayson1]

That looks like the worst Red Sox related steal since Alex Cora picking up some signs. Padres must be very pleased.


Jason