Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Dr. San Guinary, Oct 31, 2013.
It wasn't the money, it was the years. They wanted to pay him 25 million a year.
and were willing to go to 7-8 years, but 10 is stupid? Come on. For the difference in money, you passed on your best player and gave that money to another OF, to bring you to 5 (all making 15M plus, except Gardner, who you'll now likely have to trade). And 2B will now be manned by someone pretty close to replacement level.
Yes, 10 is stupid. It wasn't a money issue.
Get over it. We didn't want him.
The Yankees are done acquiring players at this point but I do believe they will make a good effort to move Ichiro.
I think they still need a starter and some help in the bull pen.
Well I am not sure Ichiro will be able to get that done for you. I just think that they had designs on moving Ichiro from the get go which would explain the Beltran signing.
Agree, I'm not sure anyone would want Ichiro (except maybe Seattle to retire his number).
I've seen rumors to that effect. Ichiro to Seattle would be the most likely scenario.
Still doesn't mean that it wasn't a stupid decision. Actually it was two stupid decisions...the first to sign Ellsbury, and then to not sign Cano.
That's your opinion.
With the winter meetings starting tomorrow the Yanks have a chance of leaving the bad taste of losing Cano behind them and putting together the final touches of what could be a great offseason. Here are my recommendations:
1. Trade Gardner for Chase Headley. Both player are approaching their final year before free agency. Both players are perfect fits for their proposed new teams.
2. Trade Ichiro, Romine and Warren to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp. With Arod likely out for most if not all season, the Yankees need another right handed bat to balance their lineup. Considering the significant financial relief, the Dodgers will likely eat a good portion of Kemp's contract, they also could use Ichiro as a fourth OF, Romine is better than any catcher in their system and Warren could be a solid back end of the rotation starter for them. Kemp is still young and could be a phenomenal force for the Yanks for years to come.
3. Sign Johan Santana or Roy Halladay to incentive laden contracts. Either could be a low cost, low risk, high reward option and may serve as inexpensive insurance in case Tanaka is not posted or as quality 4th/5th starters if healthy. Santana specially could be a good fit in Yankee stadium.
4. Go after Tanaka if posted. It is going to cost a lot more money with the new posting system, but at 25 with his track record, he is the best SP available. If not posted, give Pineda, Nuno or Banuelos a chance to win the 5th spot.
5. Sign Erisbel Arruebarruena and let him win the 2B job. The 23 yr. old Cuban defector is supposed to be a defensive wiz at SS. At his age a transition to 2B shouldn't be difficult. His range could more than make up for Jeter's lack of range and give the Yanks a chance at a solid defense down the middle.
6. Sign Seung-Hwan Oh when posted. He has nasty stuff and could be the next Uejara
This could be the new lineup:
IF Ryan, Johnson
This team can win it all. Cashman, let's get it done...
I still like my idea better of moving Jeter to 2nd Base and getting a short stop.
@Yanks: I like Santana, but no way should the Yankees sign him. Way too injury-prone. Hell, did he even pitch at all after his no-no?
@Yanks, that team is not good enough to beat the Red Sox, or the Rays. What was learned last year was that it's the team with the most depth that usually wins, and that team has none, especially in the starting rotation.
And why would the Dodgers ever do that deal for Kemp. You keep acting like the Yankees have talent to trade away. They don't, especially the kind that other teams want. They won't just want spare parts, especially if they're willing to eat much of the salary for Kemp, which is what has been indicated. Why would they do that trade for some middling talent from the Yankees, when they could get a lot more from other teams?
Well, I see Derek moving to 3rd a more likely senario if he'd ever go for it. 2nd takes as much mobility as SS.
Agree, but I'm thinking he'd be cheap with big upside.
You're starting to be laughable. So it's great when the Dodgers take your overpaid trash, that's frekkin brilliant baseball management, but when someone else proposes a deal it's bull?
The Sox can't talk about big "dumb" contracts, had it not been for the Dodgers, you'd be stuck with Becket, Crawford and Gonzales.
As I wrote above, we do have something they may want.
So what is it, you bitch when we "buy" players and bitch when we want to deal?
Seems like some pretty one-sided bitching to me.
Your Yankees Stockholm Syndrome is getting kind of hilarious, particularly your stubborn refusal to understand that it's Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner, the architects of Project 189, who are calling these shots, not Brian Cashman.
Anytime you commit $198 million to an age 37 player with arthritic knees and an all-speed, no-power, noodle-armed outfielder who has missed over 250 games in the last four years, you aren't making moves for baseball reasons.
On top of that, the Yankees now have significant holes from the losses of Cano, Pettite and Rivera, and assuming significant contributions from Jeter, Teixeira, Pineda, etc., given the nature of their injuries (and they're clearly proceeding as if A-Rod will not be back) is moronic (almost as moronic as calling Johan Santana a "high-upside" player; he's 34, his shoulder has exploded twice and he has a history of elbow issues). I mean, what's the over / under on the number of Yankees games where all of Ellsbury, Beltran, McCann, Teixeira and Jeter are healthy enough to play? 10? 25?
The Yankees are at the point in their contention curve where they just absolutely have to keep guys like Cano, because there is no replacement available, and my general opinion is that if you're going to overpay, it has to be for the elite talent -- which, in this offseason, is Cano and Cano alone. Let's also not pretend that the Yankees are ever going to be crippled by having to eat the back end of a long deal, or that Cano's deal has a bigger chance of going south than Ellsbury's, despite the length difference.
Now, I don't think the Yankees are done (they're insane if they are), but the plan for Ichiro and Wells is pretty clearly to put "free ballplayer OBO" ads up on Craigslist. Both men are ancient and coming off the absolute worst seasons of their careers; no one, not even Ruben Amaro, would trade anything of value for either of them. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking the Yankees have the chips to land Kemp, because they really don't, and the farm is at least two years away from producing anything that isn't shit, particularly now that the Yankees have already forfeited their first two draft picks next year. Kemp will likely land in Boston. (And the Dodgers have all the money in the world; they certainly don't need financial relief. This is not the era of Frank McCourt being corrupt and bankrupt.)
The long and the short of it is that the Yankees were a 79-win team on paper last year, and they've lost several huge pieces from that team including one of the best hitters in baseball (and are acting as though another one won't be around, either; call him A-Roid or whatever you want but the Yankees' lineup is better with him in it) without plugging in replacements of anything resembling equivalent value. These are not the strategic moves of a team trying to win championships; these are the accounting moves being made because Hal Steinbrenner is tired of paying the luxury tax.
Of course the owners call the money shots.... where is that different?
Accounting moves? 15 for Beltran, 21 for Ellsbury, 17 for McCann, 16 for Jeter and 16 for Kuroda are indications that Hal is tired of paying the luxury tax?
Our farm system is thin, so this is the only way to compete. Not that that's any different that what... EVER.
The Yankees smartly decided that Cano wasn't worth it. To spend that long a deal on a second baseman, one that is lazy and has a history of choking when the team needs him would have been stupid.
The way Choke Rod has played (when he's played) the last few years is contrary to your statement. His hips are gone. He can't last. He looks for one pitch to hit. I've always hated him, but now I hate him and he sucks.
Face it, the Dodgers bailed you guys out or you'd be in the same situation we are in.
Yes, it is, in case you've missed the Yankees shedding payroll like madmen for the past two offseasons. By getting under $189 this offseason, their luxury tax payment resets to only 17.5% of the difference between the threshold and their payroll (currently they pay 50% of the difference in luxury taxes, a situation which Hal Steinbrenner has been saying is unacceptable since early 2012).
"History of choking?" The hell? Cano has played in at least 159 games every year since 2007 and has Xeroxed his performance every year since 2009. He had a rough postseason in 2012, but he was a fucking moon monster in 2010-'11.
Again, the postseason is a small sample size. There's no such thing as a "clutch" player -- it's all luck. This is an even more ridiculous argument than when you were cheering the Tigers for trading Prince Fielder for a box of baseballs.
In limited duty last season, Rodriguez put up numbers that would have him on pace for about a 25 HR season with 240-some total bases. Not world-class production, but certainly something you'd like to have in your lineup as opposed to Vernon fuckin' Wells.
Pardon me? I'm not a Boston fan. In any event, on no planet can you make a rational argument that losing a reliably healthy, all-star hitter (the best free agent available this offseason) because he wanted 10 years, but going seven years on a slap-hitting, injury-prone outfielder is a net positive. Addition by subtraction is not a thing. And your whole "we didn't want him anyway, he wasn't a true Yankee" is more hilarious than all the hit jobs that the Boston front office puts out on anyone high-profile who leaves town.
Plus, even with the 'bailout', they had to give up Gonzalez to get rid of Beckett and Crawford. He wasn't part of the problem, he was a masher with a non-terrible contract, and signed for like 6 more years at that point. We'd have just as soon kept him, but that was the price of hitting the reset button on Crawford and Beckett.
Correct. Two horrible contracts signed by the Red Sox.
Again, you were bailed out by the spend happy Dodgers.
Separate names with a comma.