MLB 17-18 Offseason: The Giants are preparing for EYBS' return

[Timby]

The players were essentially dumb to sign on the all the pieces that restrain the growth of salaries without getting a mandatory floor for a percentage of revenues.

Oh, they signed a shitburger of a CBA, that much is certain, and if the players had a clue just how terrible it was, they'd hold a vote of no confidence in Tony Clark immediately. Just look at how the commissioner has the right to unilaterally impose pace-of-play and other rules to the game without union approval: That's something that was never before in any Basic Agreement.

Great read.

 

[Scout101]

Highly doubt there's real collusion, agreeing not to sign players, etc. Much more of a factor is that the majority of the FAs this year just aren't that special. And the ones that are decent are not playing premium positions, or positions that the teams with money need to fill.

Add in that the new-ish Salary Cap (well, high penalties) is scaring teams away that might have splurged as well. Several big spenders are sitting it out, trying to reset the penalty. And it's not just cash, it gets into draft capital as well, so it hurts more than it used to.

Also, the FA crop next year is much better than this year's. Spending big on the less-talented crop this year could take a team out of the running for the GOOD FAs, so incentive to sit it out.

And more teams tanking than ever before, as it's shown it can be a cheap way to stock up and then make a quick run like the Astros just did. I think teams look at the couple VERY good teams, decide they aren't as talented, and it's cheaper and more effective to tank and get kids cheap rather than pay out the nose for players that won't live up to the FA contract.

And then Boras is the agent for most of the high ticket FAs left. So no real competition or jostling for position on the part of the players, either. Almost collusion on THEIR end with the way he controls so many of them and won't let the market for them fall apart. he's willing to play chicken with them to keep his reputation intact.

So lots of factors, but don't really see a 32-team conspiracy being high on the list. Lots of different things all hitting at the same time causing this, none really nefarious.

 

[Timby]

I hesitate to give owners any benefit of the doubt, however, when in the entire history of Major League Baseball, owners have proven they will do anything possible, legal or not, to constrain labor wages and benefits (don't forget, they have been caught for collusion on three separate occasions). One big free agent class doesn't make up for ~15 years of decline in the players' share of revenues; the players coming up for free agency next year aren't representative of the free agent market at large, so them getting huge signings doesn't magically fix everyone else getting screwed.

 

[BillJ]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018...speaks-out-on-stagnant-free-agent-market.html

I think a lot of teams are realizing that bringing in marquee players from other teams really doesn't make financial sense. At least not at some of the numbers some players are asking for right now, and those players are holding up the rest of the market. Scott Boras may have oversold his clients on what their actual value was.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Moss will be 35 at the end of the season, I think he stopped qualifying as a "youngster" a while ago.

I was talking about the players in parentheses.

 

[Timby]

That Van Wagenen memo is embarrassing and the MLBPA should be furious at him for releasing it.

"We need a word ... maybe a phrase ... that describes our players as what they are: The best of the best."

"What about 'Alpha Males'?"

"Perfect! Just like lions! I bet no one's ever thought of that before!" *pushes send*

I was talking about the players in parentheses.

Yes, and?

To be honest, I wish they had kept Healy and moved Davis. I’m fine with Moss platooning, but I’d also like to see the youngsters (Pinder, Fowler, Moss, etc.) continue to develop.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

That Van Wagenen memo is embarrassing and the MLBPA should be furious at him for releasing it.

"We need a word ... maybe a phrase ... that describes our players as what they are: The best of the best."

"What about 'Alpha Males'?"

"Perfect! Just like lions! I bet no one's ever thought of that before!" *pushes send*



Yes, and?

My point was that I thought signing Moss (who is old) was somewhat confusing given that the A’s have several young players who deserve to play. They’re not going to contend. Better to find out what they have than bring back veterans who aren’t difference makers.

 

[Scout101]

I hesitate to give owners any benefit of the doubt, however, when in the entire history of Major League Baseball, owners have proven they will do anything possible, legal or not, to constrain labor wages and benefits (don't forget, they have been caught for collusion on three separate occasions). One big free agent class doesn't make up for ~15 years of decline in the players' share of revenues; the players coming up for free agency next year aren't representative of the free agent market at large, so them getting huge signings doesn't magically fix everyone else getting screwed.

You're talking about them colluding RIGHT NOW, as in they won't sign the FAs for real money, compared to previous years. Sorta non-sequitur to discuss revenue percentages at the same time. Do you really think the owners all got together and decided not to sign anyone, or is the other list of stuff I posted much more likely? Greedy millionaires not wanting to share the pie is a long term issue (and obvious), not short term collusion with FA signings.

If they weren't all colluding, which team is the perfect spot for JDM to sign his 7/$210M contract? Where's he fit in general, and then which teams should pay that and expect any ROI? Boras went nuts with valuations this year for middling players, and when 'normal' offers came in, he screamed collusion instead of negotiating. JDM has a 5/125 on the table, seems pretty reasonable for what he is. I think the Hosmer rumors were Boras 'mystery team' bullshit, but he's supposed to have a 7 year deal or maybe 2 of them on the table. What are they holding out to get?

Boras just doesn't want anyone to sign a deal lower than he expected, because it'll set the market lower than he hoped for, and he owns most of the players this year. He loses millions if the bar is set lower than the dumb number he started with. if ONE player signed for the stupid high numbers, he can then slot in everyone else behind them on a scale. Just wants the scale to start high, despite not having the no-brainer FAs to sign this year.

 

[Timby]

My point was that I thought signing Moss (who is old) was somewhat confusing given that the A’s have several young players who deserve to play. They’re not going to contend. Better to find out what they have than bring back veterans who aren’t difference makers.

My point was that you put Moss in parentheses.

You're talking about them colluding RIGHT NOW, as in they won't sign the FAs for real money, compared to previous years. Sorta non-sequitur to discuss revenue percentages at the same time. Do you really think the owners all got together and decided not to sign anyone, or is the other list of stuff I posted much more likely?

I think it is highly unlikely that everyone in baseball suddenly decided it was wise to stop handing out huge contracts. Teams didn't have an issue with big deals for guys like Jansen, Chapman, Cespedes, Desmond, etc., last year, and the 2015 - 16 offseason was nuts. There's something more at play here than "everyone is tanking" and "teams are scared of the luxury tax" (especially because the degree to which any team would go over the luxury tax by signing a Darvish or a Martinez, and the penalty they would pay, is marginal to the point of hilarity).

 

[Scout101]

yes, the 'something more in play' is that non-superstars are holding out for superstar money.

That, and a LOT of FA deals have been pretty bad lately, so it's proving more and more a poor investment. Big teams that signed players in the last couple years don't have openings that the current FAs do much to fill, or who are better than internal options. Really a mediocre crop.

that, and why bid against yourself? FA expectations were sky high, but teams didn't agree. There are big offers on the table, but since it's not a bidding war, why raise your bid? If you're winning an auction, and everyone else stopped bidding, do you raise the paddle and bid more? Red Sox have an offer for JDM, but no one has topped it. Why go up another 40-50M just to be a nice guy? No one beat the previous offer yet. And since he's not a great defender, position flexibility is limited which means only so many teams can put him on the field somewhere. And since he wants 7 years, kinda has to be an AL team, as he already sucks in the field. So, what's his market? And are teams REALLY holding him down, or did Boras misread things?

 

[BillJ]

That, and a LOT of FA deals have been pretty bad lately...

The Red Sox are on the hook for nearly $40 million dollars to Pablo Sandoval for the next couple of years. The Dodgers are desperately trying to pawn Matt Kemp off on anyone to the point they'll include prospects in the deal. There are a lot of players out there on big money deals that have been underperforming.

It doesn't make much sense for the owners to be involved in collusion when the luxury tax, draft pick compensation and loss of international pool money are doing the job of depressing the players share of the revenue pie. GM's on the other hand, are going to be held accountable for big money deals that go sour.

I just don't see any scenario where someone like JD Martinez is worth 7/210. Essentially, you'd be paying that amount for three decent years if he can stay healthy before his skills degrade. So it is more like a 3/210 deal and you have to come up with someone else to play the position in three years yet not have the revenue to spend on that player because it is tied up in Martinez for another four years.

Owners want to win and be profitable (I don't blame them), players want to be paid (I don't blame them)... GM's are stuck in the middle but the ways of evaluating long-term worth of a player is changing.

 

[BillJ]

Loria screwing Miami one last time...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/east-notes-marlins-arroyo-e-rod-mets.html

A 2008 agreement between Miami-Dade county and Jeffrey Loria (and his partners) saw the county fund most of the $515 million government-owned Marlins stadium in Little Havana. In exchange, the county was promised the right to 5 percent of any profits Loria & co. earned if they sold the team within 10 years. Yet Loria’s lawyers have released documents telling the county not to expect any money at all from last year’s $1.2 billion sale of the Marlins, Douglas Hanks of the Miami Herald writes.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Loria needs to go to jail for this.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Rangers nearing minor league deal with Bartolo Colon... Link

 

[Kronos]

Loria needs to go to jail for this.

That or he'll end up being elected somewhere.

 

[Timby]

Rangers nearing minor league deal with Bartolo Colon... Link

And the Cubs signed Peter Bourjos to a minor-league deal. Finally, the free agent action we've all been waiting for!

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

That or he'll end up being elected somewhere.

This is America, he could do both.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Todd Frazier reportedly signs 2-year deal with Mets. Linky

 

[Scout101]

Expected 3/30-something, got 2/17. It's setting a market, just not where the big FAs hoped. So there are deals to be had, but gotta come off of the 30 year, Eleventy billion dollar demands...

Pitchers and Catchers report soon, this is coming to a head one way or the other

 

[Jedi_Master]

Loria screwing Miami one last time...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/east-notes-marlins-arroyo-e-rod-mets.html

Miami - Dade included a provision to be granted 5 percent of any profits made if it was sold in less than 10 years? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
They thought a billionaire businessman with a history of making shady deals would somehow allow the business to generate profit - and give away some of that money? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!