Mixing Metals

[All Seeing Eye]

After watching Stargate where they say the Iris was made of a mixture of Titanium and the made up metal Trinium I wondered, what would you get if you took all Metals known to man (eg. Titanium, Copper, Gold, Silver, Zinc, Iron, Aluminium, Lead, Nickel, etc) and taking equal amounts of each metal melted them all down in a bowl, mixed it all up and poured it out into a half an inch thick sheet of metal? I've always wondered what the result would be.

Would the sheet be strong or weak?
What would this sheet of metal be called?
Would the sheet really be a mixture or would each type of metal have become layered before the metals cooled?
Would this sheet of metal have any benefits to the construction industry or space travel?
Has any scientist ever done this? and if not why not?

 

[misskim86]

Some would definetly be layered, also some metals would simply evaporate because of the huge temperatures required to melt other metals

 

[All Seeing Eye]

misskim86 said:
also some metals would simply evaporate because of the huge temperatures required to melt other metals

Im sure this could somehow be overcome by mixing metals in at different times and having the bowl enclosed.

 

[John Picard]

It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

 

[misskim86]

Fire said:

misskim86 said:
also some metals would simply evaporate because of the huge temperatures required to melt other metals

Im sure this could somehow be overcome by mixing metals in at different times and having the bowl enclosed.

I don't see how. pouring melted metal which requires incredible heat, on metal that requires maybe 250 degrees would evaporate it

 

[Ariadne]

Jolly_St_Picard said:
It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

That's true for most elements, but if they're all metals, wouldn't it work?

 

[misskim86]

Toresica said:

Jolly_St_Picard said:
It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

That's true for most elements, but if they're all metals, wouldn't it work?

there are certain metals that only exists for a very limited amount of time too

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Ok lets say that we dont use ALL metals but instead use the majority of metals that WOULD mix together, what would the sheet be then?

Jolly_St_Picard said:
It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

I'm not talking about making a compound i'm just talking about making a mixture.

 

[John Picard]

Toresica said:

Jolly_St_Picard said:
It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

That's true for most elements, but if they're all metals, wouldn't it work?

Are you familiar with the periodic table or chemistry? All (unmixed) metals are elements.

Fire said:
Ok lets say that we dont use ALL metals but instead use the majority of metals that WOULD mix together, what would the sheet be then?

Jolly_St_Picard said:
It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

I'm not talking about making a compound i'm just talking about making a mixture.

*sigh* a mixture IS a compound. You need to familiarize yourself with chemistry. Again, you cannot just "mix away".

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Jolly_St_Picard said:

Fire said:
Ok lets say that we dont use ALL metals but instead use the majority of metals that WOULD mix together, what would the sheet be then?

Jolly_St_Picard said:
It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

I'm not talking about making a compound i'm just talking about making a mixture.

*sigh* a mixture IS a compound. You need to familiarize yourself with chemistry. Again, you cannot just "mix away".

Ok my chemistry is very rusty, I havnt done chemistry since I was at school a VERY long time ago, I thought a compound was something created when two elements are REACTED together using a CATALYST and thus BONDED, I could have sworn that was right but my bad I guess, but I cant see why you cant just mix something together because i'm not talking about bonding them, you can mix coca cola with lemonade so why not metals. Mix the metals together and then immediately after mixing and pouring just instantly freeze it solid and apresto you've got a solid metal mixture in the shape of a sheet.

 

[John Picard]

No, no, NO! A compound is the mixing of two or more elements. In order to properly combine, there has to be a proper sharing of electrons. You cannot just melt two or more dissimilar metals together, pour into a mold, and voila, an alloy is born. You definitely need a refresher in chemistry.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Jolly_St_Picard said:
No, no, NO! A compound is the mixing of two or more elements. In order to properly combine, there has to be a proper sharing of electrons. You cannot just melt two or more dissimilar metals together, pour into a mold, and voila, an alloy is born. You definitely need a refresher in chemistry.

Nope I still dont understand why they cant be mixed together, if you stick a brick on cement when it dries it sticks together so metals will thus stick together when solidified making a mixture and NOT a compound. Im not talking about making a compound as i said above, i'm talking about making a mixture, you're getting the 2 confused.

 

[PlixTixiplik]

Jolly_St_Picard said:

It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

I'm not talking about making a compound i'm just talking about making a mixture.

*sigh* a mixture IS a compound. You need to familiarize yourself with chemistry. Again, you cannot just "mix away".

No, a metal alloy isn't a chemical compound - it's a solid solution. But somewhat similar rules still apply, and you can't make a solid solution (alloy) from metal ions with substantially different atomic radii or valence, for example. If you tried to mix two molten metals that could not form a solid solution, one would exsolve and you would simply get discontinuous layers of one metal within the other.

-MEC

 

[All Seeing Eye]

PlixTixiplik said:
If you tried to mix two molten metals that could not form a solid solution, one would exsolve and you would simply get discontinuous layers of one metal within the other.

-MEC

Well this is what I was getting at, there would likely be pockets of different metals all stuck together but what I was trying to assertain was would this help to create a strong metal sheet having metals such as Iron, Titanium and Gold etc all mingled together in a sheet. This is why I said I wasnt talking about a compound.

 

[John Picard]

PlixTixiplik said:

Jolly_St_Picard said:

It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

I'm not talking about making a compound i'm just talking about making a mixture.

*sigh* a mixture IS a compound. You need to familiarize yourself with chemistry. Again, you cannot just "mix away".

No, a metal alloy isn't a chemical compound - it's a solid solution. But somewhat similar rules still apply, and you can't make a solid solution (alloy) from metal ions with substantially different atomic radii or valence, for example. If you tried to mix two molten metals that could not form a solid solution, one would exsolve and you would simply get discontinuous layers of one metal within the other.

-MEC

That's what I was getting at that I can't get the OP to understand. He seems hell bent on arguing that mixing one or more elements will yield a usable product.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Jolly_St_Picard said:

PlixTixiplik said:

Jolly_St_Picard said:

It all depends on the valencies of the shells at the atomic level. You can't just "mix away" and expect it to work.

I'm not talking about making a compound i'm just talking about making a mixture.

*sigh* a mixture IS a compound. You need to familiarize yourself with chemistry. Again, you cannot just "mix away".

No, a metal alloy isn't a chemical compound - it's a solid solution. But somewhat similar rules still apply, and you can't make a solid solution (alloy) from metal ions with substantially different atomic radii or valence, for example. If you tried to mix two molten metals that could not form a solid solution, one would exsolve and you would simply get discontinuous layers of one metal within the other.

-MEC

That's what I was getting at that I can't get the OP to understand. He seems hell bent on arguing that mixing one or more elements will yield a usable product.

Wrong, I understand perfectly what you are saying but it is you who are confusing the entire matter, I know that they wont bond, Im not talking about them bonding i'm talking about mixing the things together and solidifying them.

 

[PlixTixiplik]

More likely the resultant mixture would be weaker because the boundaries between the two metals would serve as a discontinuity, enhancing the chance of mechanical failure. It's also not possible to control the pattern of metal layers during exsolution - they may form discontinuous layers, little pockets, or blebs. Not exactly good for manufacturing or material properties. I think there's a reason that the metal alloys we use are carefully chosen (whether through modern chemistry or ancient trial-and-error) to form proper solid solutions.

-MEC

 

[John Picard]

I give up.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Jolly_St_Picard said:
I give up.

Can someone else explain to Jolly what i'm on about please.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

PlixTixiplik said:
More likely the resultant mixture would be weaker because the boundaries between the two metals would serve as a discontinuity, enhancing the chance of mechanical failure.

Excellent point.

It's also not possible to control the pattern of metal layers during exsolution - they may form discontinuous layers, little pockets, or blebs.

What about vibration? would vibrating the bowl during pouring and vibrating the sheet template when solidifying help to create a better mixture? and as you said it would be weak due to the boundaries between the metals so could such a sheet be used as ablative armour on the outer layer of a tank, used as an expendable piece of hull?