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Mixed race/culture/religion relationships

Ruaidhri

Commodore
Commodore
The situation: after 4 years of friendship, during which time both of us were in other relationships (my marriage was self-destructing, she had a couple of boyfriends), my best friend and I are at long last on the same page about what we mean to each other and are boyfriend/girlfriend in addition to being best friends, and planning out where we are headed. I'm happier than I've been since I moved to Canada in 1997, and I've never seen her in such consistently good spirits. The only time she gets down now is when she has to go back to her family's home. We probably would have happened a lot closer to the end of my marriage, but for a significant issue.


I am a white, agnostic American. She is a brown, Muslim Pakistani (by way of a British upbringing). I pursued her when I was finally in a position to do so, getting rejected multiple times because of these things. She didn't think I fully understood what I'd be getting into, and flat out didn't think her family would let it happen.

I’m not bothered by these differences. Her attitudes are very western because she grew up in England, though she adores her heritage. She’s only bothered by the differences because of what will likely happen when we tell her family. She has often semi-joked that if they were to find out about us they would ship her off to Pakistan. I know that some in her family would even disapprove of her having a platonic gora friend, let alone a boyfriend or husband. She’s been forced into marriage as a teen, only to suffer every type of abuse imaginable. And as a result of her personal experience is highly active in her community about educating people on forced marriage, honor-based violence and abuse. Her family is constantly introducing her to potential suitors, and have even accepted proposals without consulting her, leading to arguments when she says no.

But she’s still full of guilt and loyalty to her family (even though they treat her terribly; I once overheard her mother say to her “Nobody wants to marry a fat girl”…which made me so angry, and she’s been slapped a few times too, which made me even angrier). I once read a quote in a book that “the honor of an Indian family rests squarely upon the shoulders of its daughters.” My girlfriend is burdened with this weighing upon her; it’s been beaten into her since birth.

Despite and because of all this, she wants out of the cycle. She wants to make sure that her future children get to make their own choices. She aspires to start a non-profit that will benefit Muslim women in abusive situations, and create awareness of the cultural issues to those who can implement change here in Canada. She’s been a vocal advocate of what England has done to safeguard young women from forced marriage and give them a way to seek legal help.

I know she’s a remarkably strong woman, she’s already dealt with so much, but everyone has a breaking point. I’m a steadying influence for her, and I know that I can withstand the shitstorm to come, I just need to make sure that she keeps her focus. Her family doesn’t ever have to like me (I actually get along well with her mom, viper that she is), but I fear what it will do to her when they decide to shun her because of me.

She’s sought some advice from a cousin who married a white Christian. The cousin has been very supportive, telling her that the family strife was worth it. I don’t call her names, or put her down. I’ve been on the receiving end of those things and no one deserves it, especially someone you love. She feels safe with me.

So, my question here is for others who may have had a similar situation. How does the person from the more liberal culture and upbringing help the other through the bigoted close-mindedness of her family?
 
Be careful not to belittle her cultural and family traditions. They may be wrong or illogical, but choose your words carefully. If you find something you disagree with, do so in a rational manner. I disagree with a lot of the customs I was raised with but I get really defended when I perceive them as being attacked.

And don't underestimate the hold it has on her. Loyalty to one's parents is a very difficult thing to step away from.

I'm not saying she can't step away from it; it's just really difficult. My parents weren't accepting of my husband for several years but they came around to it and have grown to really like him. Then again now, after about eight years of being together I've got to figure out how to tell them that we might be splitting up.

Okay maybe the moral of the story is that I have no business posting anything about relationships! :borg:
 
Ruaidhri said:
The situation: after 4 years of friendship, during which time both of us were in other relationships (my marriage was self-destructing, she had a couple of boyfriends), my best friend and I are at long last on the same page about what we mean to each other and are boyfriend/girlfriend in addition to being best friends,
I always thought that if you are friends with a girl they would never want to be romantically involved for fear of ruining or losing the friendship?
 
I've actually really embraced her culture. I have no problem with traditions save where it impinges upon a person's ability to live their life the way they want to. When she chafes at the way she is expected by her family to be suservient to everyone else (being made to prepare the family meal and clean up afterwards the day she's had surgery? Please!), then I chafe at it as well. She won't eat meats that aren't Halal, and while I've never understood dietary restrictions in religion, I happily buy Halal when I cook for her. Over the years I've soaked up a lot from her.

Believe me, I know how strong the family tie is for her. I have no intention of making any attempt to sever it...it would just make her resent me. I just want to be as accepted as possible.

And, one of the best things I ever did was to learn how to say "You look beautiful today" and "I love you" in Urdu. Still trying to learn more, preferably from understanding the language rather than memorization.

And hey, Kestra, anyone who has been in a relationship can post about about them. Everyone's experience is relevant. So sorry to hear about what may be happening for you. :(

Ruaidhri said:
The situation: after 4 years of friendship, during which time both of us were in other relationships (my marriage was self-destructing, she had a couple of boyfriends), my best friend and I are at long last on the same page about what we mean to each other and are boyfriend/girlfriend in addition to being best friends,
I always thought that if you are friends with a girl they would never want to be romantically involved for fear of ruining or losing the friendship?

For the sake of brevity, I left out a lot of what happened to get us to this point. But that's a pretty generalized statement, and while it was a fear that both of us expressed, I think the potential reward was worth it.
 
I have no advice to offer, I just want to wish you good luck. It already sounds to me that you're doing the best you can - being the steadying influence and not pushing her to a confrontation with her family.
 
Thank you trampledamage! I think I neglected to say that in the picture thread.

My biggest concern was that she would only partially commit herself to the relationship. She's a pessimist when it comes to her own life, but she's been telling people she's got a boyfriend now (just not the family)...which let's me know she's "all-in".
 
Be careful not to belittle her cultural and family traditions. They may be wrong or illogical, but choose your words carefully. If you find something you disagree with, do so in a rational manner. I disagree with a lot of the customs I was raised with but I get really defended when I perceive them as being attacked.

I agree--do not belittle her beliefs or ever conduct yourself in a way as to make it seem like you think your culture and your agnosticism is superior. I think the OP is best supporting his wife in coming to whatever she determines HER new take on those beliefs will be. She does not need to feel any pressure from her husband to conform to his beliefs, to feel that she cannot be a Muslim.

Therefore, I'm glad to see so far that the OP is showing respect for her beliefs. I also like what I saw that she is interested in creating a nonprofit to help Muslim women in abusive situations. I think it would mean a lot to her if the OP really got behind that effort...not as an agnostic trying to "save" Muslims, but in a way that respects the spirit in which his wife approaches the issue.
 
Thank you trampledamage! I think I neglected to say that in the picture thread.

My biggest concern was that she would only partially commit herself to the relationship. She's a pessimist when it comes to her own life, but she's been telling people she's got a boyfriend now (just not the family)...which let's me know she's "all-in".

That's wonderful! I'm a sap for a happy ending :)
 
Oh, I made sure to wish her Eid Mubarak last month, and during Muharram she asked me to stream a service from her mosque a couple times and I did so. Interestingly, one of the sermons was about cultural racism. Kinda wish her parents had been in that one, but I know they were at the service conducted in Urdu, not the English language one. I've also read the Koran.

People with faith aren't broken and don't need saving. I went to church until I was 21, and don't have any ill feelings toward religion. I just don't feel faith in what (to me) is an abstraction. I have faith in people, though. Especially in my girlfriend. Which is why the moment she needs me to help get her non-profit off the ground, I'll be making a slight change to my career path (I work for a fundraising company, thus "slight").
 
Ahh, so the sermon was anti-racism? Always a good message. :)

And that's very cool to know that you're involved in nonprofit work. Shared interests are very important to a relationship--no doubt that will help you relate better, to not only be able to offer moral support to her cause but your know-how as well. Do you both work for the same organization already?

And I'm also very glad to know that you don't feel like people with faith are broken. There are too many people who have the attitude that they're "Brights" and those who believe are...well...dim-bulbs.
 
Suppose you came from a rich WASP-ish American background and your family hated your non-Caucasian girlfriend. How would you have handled the situation? I think it would be safe to distance yourselves (note that I refer to both of you) from your family ties. This is YOUR relationship, and if you're lucky, YOUR future as husband and wife.

Some ethnic groups (e.g., Asians, Hispanics) have strong family values and ties. If I were in that situation wherein my personal happiness was at stake, I'd know my choice, though it probably wouldn't be easy.
 
Well, the resistance will always be before the fact. If you can move your relationship forward first, get her to a point where she's doing it without their 'permission', then you get to a point where the family will be very upset but there's nothing they can do, when faced with the choice of basically never seeing their daughter again because they disapprove, or grudgingly accepting it, many will go for the latter.
 
I don't think mixed race relationships are that big of a deal in the US. My first girlfriend was a black jehovah's witness. Her ethnicity was no big deal but her family had very strong feelings not in my favor on the religion thing which eventually brought that relationship to an end.

I guess my point is religious differences are a big issue worthy of attention, everything else is quite manageable IMO.
 
My wife's family cut her off when we became married. They were quite upset with her and there was no contact for a year, it really tore her up as she deeply loved them. Then I contacted them and put her in contact as a birthday gift. All was forgotten and they accepted me. I even scored major points and earned their respect for being the peacemaker.

In hind sight I think the separation was good because it allowed her to become independent and the absence did make everyone remember how much they love and need each other.
 
Ruaidhri said:
The situation: after 4 years of friendship, during which time both of us were in other relationships (my marriage was self-destructing, she had a couple of boyfriends), my best friend and I are at long last on the same page about what we mean to each other and are boyfriend/girlfriend in addition to being best friends,
I always thought that if you are friends with a girl they would never want to be romantically involved for fear of ruining or losing the friendship?

Yeah, that can happen. That's one of the reasons it took me and my girlfriend six years to get our act together.
 
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Ahh, so the sermon was anti-racism? Always a good message. :)

And that's very cool to know that you're involved in nonprofit work. Shared interests are very important to a relationship--no doubt that will help you relate better, to not only be able to offer moral support to her cause but your know-how as well. Do you both work for the same organization already?

And I'm also very glad to know that you don't feel like people with faith are broken. There are too many people who have the attitude that they're "Brights" and those who believe are...well...dim-bulbs.

I had next to nothing in common with my ex, and that marriage, despite the fact that it lasted ten years, was a disaster from the word go. I thankfully learned a lot about myself and how I need to act in a relationship, so that moving forward I can make the next one work. I just need open communication to happen from both directions and I can work any issues through.

I met my girlfriend when she started working for the same company that I am still at. She moved on and I moved up.
 
I've known several women from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds, but only one that I would consider a "relationship." The difference is, I guess, we both knew immediately that our different lifestyles, plus the fact that we wanted to live in different parts of the country, were incompatible. We went ahead anyway, and we're still friends and keep in touch even after sixteen years.

Then again now, after about eight years of being together I've got to figure out how to tell them that we might be splitting up.
This is the first I've heard of this; I'm very sorry. :(
 
I can only offer you good luck as I've not been in such a situation before. I imagine it must be incredibly frustrating.
 
I guess my point is religious differences are a big issue worthy of attention, everything else is quite manageable IMO.

Race is a big "whatever" as far as I'm concerned. Given my tastes in men, that's fairly likely to happen with me.

Religious differences, though...I think it depends on how much someone is willing to bend, since religion is a matter of values and the choices that a person makes. I know myself well enough to know that I'll only compromise so far. Given that, I don't think it would be right of me to try and force any relationship where this aspect wouldn't work...not good for me OR for the man in question, either.
 
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