Thanks. I haven't watched that episode since it originally aired and I was misremembering that the references to them being Organians had been edited out of the script.
Mistakes You Thought Were Made In OS, But Weren't
- Thread starter Samuel
- Start date
I suspect that them being so powerful is part of the reason they were never revisited. It's tough to tell stories about omnipotent beings. They're basically a walking deus ex machina.
The Organian Peace Treaty was implied in TWOK.
COMPUTER VOICE: Subject vessel is third class neutronic fuel carrier, crew of eighty-one, three hundred passengers.
SAAVIK: Damn. Mister Sulu, plot an intercept course.
SULU: May I remind the Captain that if a starship enters the Zone.
SAAVIK: I'm aware of my responsibilities, Mister
SULU: Estimating two minutes to intercept. ...Now entering the Neutral Zone.
COMPUTER VOICE: Warning. We have entered the Neutral Zone. ...Warning.
SPOCK: We are now in violation of Treaty, Captain
COMPUTER VOICE: Subject vessel is third class neutronic fuel carrier, crew of eighty-one, three hundred passengers.
SAAVIK: Damn. Mister Sulu, plot an intercept course.
SULU: May I remind the Captain that if a starship enters the Zone.
SAAVIK: I'm aware of my responsibilities, Mister
SULU: Estimating two minutes to intercept. ...Now entering the Neutral Zone.
COMPUTER VOICE: Warning. We have entered the Neutral Zone. ...Warning.
SPOCK: We are now in violation of Treaty, Captain
Yes but what treaty? Was it the Klingon neutral zone? Which we never knew existed before Undiscovered Country or was it the Romulan neutral zone, with Klingon ships on patrol or was it more that the writers didn't know their stuff?
JB
JB
The Organians form TOS are very different from the ones from ENT. The only way to reconcile these two stories is to say that there are several kinds of Organians and that they don't share the same "philosophy". Same as the trill, actually, of which there are at least two kinds.
As to the "Organian Peace Treaty" I think that's not something the Organians imposed so much as the Federation and Klingons hammered out in the aftermath of the Organia incident and as a way of, hopefully, keeping the Organians from really interfering in their business. "Look! We're playing nice! No hot war!"
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Where did you get the idea that the Klingon Neutral Zone didn't exist before TUC? Kirk has lines that are explicit in stating that the Kobayashi Maru deals with Klingons. "Klingons don't take prisoners" sure sounds like the writers knew what they were talking about to me. Any reference to treaty in that regard must at least imply the Organian treaty, at least to viewers familiar with earlier Trek.
The Klingon footage that we see at the beginning of TWOK was of course recycled from the opening of TMP, so it was either going to be Klingons or, like "Elaan of Troyius," Romulans in Klingon ships. They probably just went with saying it was Klingons because it was simpler. No need to get convoluted in the opening scene of your movie.
In universe, I'd say that there either was a Klingon Neutral Zone, as they say there was in TUC, or else having Klingons suddenly appear in the Romulan Neutral Zone was a deliberate inconsistency introduced into that version of the Kobayashi Maru test (Expect the unexpected!).
In my headcanon, there are multiple versions of the Kobayashi Maru test anyway, all dealing with the basic mission of rescuing a ship by that name that ultimately proves to be a no-win scenario. That way the instructor can tailor the test to the various cadets taking it, and it makes it easier to keep the details secret amongst the cadets (After all, the SATs aren't the exact same test every year, are they?).
So the Starfleet Academy class of 2282 dealt with one version of the Kobayashi Maru when they took the test on March 20th, and the class of 2283 dealt with a similar-but-not-identical scenario when they took the test on March 21st of the next year. Maybe Captain Spock let Admiral Kirk suggest a few elements into that day's scenario, and Kirk threw in some Klingons to mix things up.
Although Klingon ships in the Romulan Neutral Zone might not be an inconsistency if we remember their sharing technologies or that Romulans were using Klingon design! But the Gamma Hydra system is where Kirk and crew nearly aged to death in The Deadly Years on a colony close to the Romulan Neutral Zone as GNDN18 has said and there is definitely no reference to a Klingon Neutral Zone in the television series!
JB
I watched The Observer Effect the other night for the first time due to this thread. I thought it was a superb episode. (And it highlighted just how bad Discovery was/is.)
I don't know that the Organians are that different. But in any case those in charge on Organia can reasonably be expected to be different from their observer teams. It's also possible that by the time of Errand of Mercy, the Organians experienced a culture shift and became xenophobic or at least isolationist. In any case, ENT respected canon and built off of it, as opposed to a more recent show I could name that just took a big whiz on TOS for no reason. Ugh.
And what show would that be, Phase? 
JB
JB
And what show would that be, Phase?
JB
One that had better improve fast if it's to be more than a historical footnote, JB!
They'll keep it going whatever and still tell you that it has healthy ratings my friend!
JB
JB
Yeah, since the ratings are opaque to everyone outside the network and producers, you may be right. CBS may feel that the show is elevating the Star Trek brand just by airing and generating discussion, regardless of its merit. I just for the life of me do not understand why they couldn't have set it in the TNG era or later.
Agreed! This fascination of setting shows before Kirk's time is nothing but silly! The technology available to the effects team is miles beyond TOS and in trying to implement it in a series ten years or a century earlier defies logic! Yet if they were to use the TOS look and style today, people would probably not be happy outside of us TOS fans and the Continues series!
JB
JB
Fandom assumed the Klingon neutral zone back in the 70s. FJ's tech manual and Star Fleet Battles clearly depicted a neutral zone as a result of the Organian Peace Treaty.
Occams Razor... Gamma Hydrae changed hands from Romulan to Klingon control between The Deadly Years and TWOK
Having Klingons in the Romulan neutral zone is a bit convolutiled. The cadets did not express surprise at such an unexpected event. At no time was contacting the Romulans ever mentioned. It was clear from the movie that it was Klingon territory.
http://cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/sftm/02-07-01.jpg
http://www.st-minutiae.com/articles/treaties/organian.html
Occams Razor... Gamma Hydrae changed hands from Romulan to Klingon control between The Deadly Years and TWOK
Having Klingons in the Romulan neutral zone is a bit convolutiled. The cadets did not express surprise at such an unexpected event. At no time was contacting the Romulans ever mentioned. It was clear from the movie that it was Klingon territory.
http://cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/sftm/02-07-01.jpg
http://www.st-minutiae.com/articles/treaties/organian.html
Occams Razor... Gamma Hydrae changed hands from Romulan to Klingon control between The Deadly Years and TWOK
Having Klingons in the Romulan neutral zone is a bit convolutiled. The cadets did not express surprise at such an unexpected event. At no time was contacting the Romulans ever mentioned. It was clear from the movie that it was Klingon territory.
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Maybe it was after the Klingon/Romulan conflict of 2271 as stated in many a journal and one that Kor himself took a part in?
JB
Having Klingons in the Romulan neutral zone is a bit convolutiled. The cadets did not express surprise at such an unexpected event. At no time was contacting the Romulans ever mentioned. It was clear from the movie that it was Klingon territory.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe it was after the Klingon/Romulan conflict of 2271 as stated in many a journal and one that Kor himself took a part in?
JB
I've run across some pretty convoluted reasoning in Trek fandom over the years, but I think this takes the cake. Special demerits for trying to invoke logic.
