Mistakes You Thought Were Made In OS, But Weren't

[Samuel]

I always got the idea that the Organians proclaiming that there would be no conflict between the Klingons and Federation ultimately only applied to the region around Organia.
After all, they didn't bother getting involved until the Federation fleet arrived to engage the Klingon fleet in orbit around Organia.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The Klingon problem really should have been settled after Errand of Mercy or has everyone forgotten about The Organian decree?
I know they mentioned The Organian peace treaty in Trouble With Tribbles but in every other Klingon episode or film it's been safely ignored!!

They also allude to it in "Day of the Dove," where Kang says that it's been three years since it was enacted and the Klingons have obeyed the treaty to the letter.

KANG: For three years, the Federation and the Klingon Empire have been at peace. A treaty we have honored to the letter.

I guess them secretly supplying arms to Tyree's planet in "A Private Little War" didn't really count...

But obviously something happened to the Organian Peace Treaty by the time of the movies, as by TWOK they're running battle scenarios featuring the Klingons as a regular part of Academy training, and engaging in open combat with the Klingons in TSFS.

 

[J.T.B.]

If he said "two convoy ships" and not "two escort ships" then I've made a huge error since it is possible that a convoy of freighters would be operating together and functioning as their own escorts.

No, I think your earlier point still stands. If they're using convoy, there's a threat, and the convoy has to be protected. Otherwise, if it's not defended or the defense is inadequate, the raider gets served up a great big meal in one convenient package. Unless the freighters have considerable fighting power of their own, which seems unlikely, a Starfleet escort would be pretty much a requirement.

 

[Tenacity]

I always got the idea that the Organians proclaiming that there would be no conflict between the Klingons and Federation ultimately only applied to the region around Organia.

I figured the Organians didn't consider monitoring the treaty was very important, the Federation and the Empire fairly quickly realized the Organians weren't paying attention.

 

[johnnybear]

In James Blish's novel, Spock Must Die, The Klingons develop a weapon that shields their activities from Organia while they seal them up in a bubble of sorts and then they plot to attack the Federation but Kirk and spock free the Organians who then punish the Klingons for their misdemeanours!
JB

 

[UnknownSample]

Thanks j bear, I was trying to reach back 40 plus years in my memory, to what Blish did with the Organians, whom I knew were dealt with.
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Original Trek stuck with the Organian treaty... because they needed a device which could allow for a little bit of limited conflict, which was always guaranteed not to erupt into total war. Small isolated incidents aren't war, so the Organians don't step in.
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The Organians were definitely talking about stopping a war wherever it might break out. They didn't just kick both armies out of their neighborhood. they stopped both fleets *everywhere*, and dictated terms personally to rulers on both home worlds.

 

[Samuel]

Anyone remember the DC Comics reboot of Star Trek immediately after The Wrath of Khan?

They had the Excalbians (The Savage Curtain) causing a war between the Klingons and Federation in order to test their "good v/s evil" idea on a larger scale (Kor was very annoyed that the Klingons were supposed to be evil).
To accomplish this the Excalbians sealed off Organia with a type of force field which nothing could get through.
Kirk and Kor put a stop to this by suggesting to the Excalbians that they "get their hands dirty" by playing out the "good v/s evil" scenario as a participant.
By fighting the Organians themselves. IIRC at the end the planet Organia disappeared entirely.

 

[Tenacity]

KANG: For three years, the Federation and the Klingon Empire have been at peace. A treaty we have honored to the letter.

I have considered that Kang might be referring to a different treaty, for all we know treaties exist by the hundreds between the Klingons and the Federation.

And I somehow doubt the Klingons observe any treaty "to the letter." Other than those aspects that favor the Klingons.

 

[Maurice]

I have considered that Kang might be referring to a different treaty, for all we know treaties exist by the hundreds between the Klingons and the Federation.

And I somehow doubt the Klingons observe any treaty "to the letter." Other than those aspects that favor the Klingons.

Actually, obeying an agreement "to the letter" as opposed to the spirit of it is often worse. Loopholes often defy the spirit of agreements.

 

[johnnybear]

The Organians I would say rank as one of the most powerful races in the Trek universe, so logically the writers of a comic book pitting Excalbians against Organians can't have seen the episode if they think Excalbia might win and Organia just disappeared!
Strange though that there has been no mention of The Organians outside of the TV series in the entire franchise since 1967 and their key position in Federation/Klingon conflict has been forgotten!
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

The Organians I would say rank as one of the most powerful races in the Trek universe, so logically the writers of a comic book pitting Excalbians against Organians can't have seen the episode if they think Excalbia might win and Organia just disappeared!
Strange though that there has been no mention of The Organians outside of the TV series in the entire franchise since 1967 and their key position in Federation/Klingon conflict has been forgotten!
JB

I totally agree with this. The Talosians have been woefully underexplored as well.

 

[Samuel]

The Organians I would say rank as one of the most powerful races in the Trek universe, so logically the writers of a comic book pitting Excalbians against Organians can't have seen the episode if they think Excalbia might win and Organia just disappeared!
JB

I don't think the comic book story implied that Excalbia beat the Organians. Although a comic book doesn't exactly allow for in depth analysis to me it implied that Organia disappeared as a result of the "crossfire" between the Organians and Excalbians.

And strictly by the capabilities they showed in their respective episodes (Errand of Mercy, The Savage Curtain) the Excalbians could be inferred as being just as powerful as the Organians. The only differences being the Excalbians were not energy beings. Though they could alter their physical forms.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I have considered that Kang might be referring to a different treaty, for all we know treaties exist by the hundreds between the Klingons and the Federation.

And I somehow doubt the Klingons observe any treaty "to the letter." Other than those aspects that favor the Klingons.

It said "The Empire" has followed it. So that's the official policy. Unofficially, rogue elements and top secret groups have not.

 

[johnnybear]

The Organians are definitely the more powerful race as seen by their utter disgust at the human and Klingon conflict! The Excalbians were like a race of rock beings with tremendous forces at their control but a little ignorant and childlike I thought! The Organians were a race that had existed for millennia and made reference to their being so advanced above other cultures!
JB

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's illogical that Colonel Green and his team of bad guys in "The Savage Curtain" would have scenes only among themselves, or with only Surak or Lincoln. All six of them were brought into existence for the sole purpose of interacting with Kirk and Spock, so why would they have scenes of their own?

Perhaps the Excalbians could get more information out of the (simulated) characters if they made them 'autonomous' - i.e. if the faux characters actually believed themselves to be the originals and could have conversations among themselves as if they were.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I have considered that Kang might be referring to a different treaty, for all we know treaties exist by the hundreds between the Klingons and the Federation.

Occam's razor. The simplest solution is often the best. We saw the Klingons and the Federation come to a peace agreement at the end of "Errand of Mercy" and an Organian Peace Treaty was referred to in "The Trouble With Tribbles." It stands to reason that they're most likely talking about the same treaty in "Day of the Dove." I'm positive that was the writer's intent, at the very least.

The Organians I would say rank as one of the most powerful races in the Trek universe, so logically the writers of a comic book pitting Excalbians against Organians can't have seen the episode if they think Excalbia might win and Organia just disappeared!

Mike W. Barr knows his Star Trek, dude. He didn't just pick the Excalbians out of a hat. And the end of the comic book storyline just had the Organians and the Excalbians vanish to another dimension to settle their trial by combat. There was no indication as to which side might win.

Strange though that there has been no mention of The Organians outside of the TV series in the entire franchise since 1967 and their key position in Federation/Klingon conflict has been forgotten!

Well, the aliens in ENT's "Observer Effect" were originally intended to be Organians. They've also appeared in both Trek comics and novels. And lots of aliens in Trek are only seen once and never mentioned on the shows again.

 

[Phaser Two]

were originally intended to be Organians. They've also appeared in both Trek comics and novels. And lots of aliens in Trek are only seen once and never mentioned on the shows again.

If they weren't Organians, what were they? I've never seen that ENT ep.

True about one-offs, but the Organians were really important and really powerful. It's surprising that they were never revisited.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

From "Observer Effect":

TUCKER: Not exactly. I'm an Organian. a nonphysical life-form.​

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/87.htm

That's much more than "originally intended."

 

[Phaser Two]

Thanks; I thought I remembered hearing about Organians on ENT.

 

[Discofan]

I still get confused by the abrupt return to the Enterprise. The trio remember the events of the episode. Does Chekhov or Scotty? The Melkot says "approach our planet". Did all of it occur in just a few brief seconds on board the Enterprise, just in the crew's minds? The ending implies they never beamed down earlier. Did the Melkots somehow wind time back to pre-beaming down after returning the landing party to the ship?

It was all a dream!