Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of TNG?

[DostoyevskyClone]

Trekker82's thread (Re: 'Lessons') got me thinking about the lack of interconnectedness in TNG at times. He gave a great example of TNG following up on something important in a character's life. I'd like to hear everyone's...shall we say regrets? about some of the plot points that were not picked up or touched upon in TNG.

For example (and this is a minor one, but it makes the point, and it always got me): Riker had deep feelings for Soren in 'The Outcast' but we never hear him mention her once after the fact. Even just a small reference - a scene with him and Worf in Ten Forward drinking at the bar - would have been awesome. I mean, here was a guy who was willing to give up his career and it's never mentioned again.

They may not even be regrets; they could simply be head scratchers. For example: wouldn't have Picard needed some rehabilitation/readjustment time after 'The Inner Light' considering he was, in essence, away from Starfleet for decades? Would he have just been able to sit back down in the captain's chair a week after something like that? (I won't take credit for that; Phil Farrand made a similar observation about O'Brien in a DS9 episode).

 

[M-Red]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Good topic.


I always wanted to see a follow-up with Commander Shelby. She was a strong character with a lot of potential, and she played a vital role in perhaps TNG's most popular episode. Ensign Gomez could have received more attention. I'd say Guinan too, except her mysterious aura was part of what made the character so good.


As for the main characters, I think they did a really good job overall. It would have been nice to see Geordi land a steady girlfriend. Maybe a follow-up to Riker and his dad.


However, and ironically enough, two of my biggest complaints with TNG involve failures when it actually did follow-up with a narrative thread.


The stories of Lore and Hugh and the Borg should never have been intertwined. Apart, the continuation of those two stories could have been great additions. Together, it all came off as campy and hokey.


Worse yet is the existence of Sela, a character that's probably the worst mistake TNG ever made. And they did it more than once (!) in two of the most potentially awesome stories TNG had to tell. Baffling. I realize that Crosby wanted back in, but it still doesn't excuse it, especially since the character was inserted into the Klingon Civil War and the return of Spock. Again....baffling.


I also wish we could have seen more detailed visual depictions of other civilizations, or at least the more important worlds the audience was familiar with (Romulus, Vulcan, Q'noS). But budgetary restraints come into play there, so that's more understandable and a little different than what you're aiming for I think.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Picard needed some rehabilitation/readjustment time after 'The Inner Light' considering he was, in essence, away from Starfleet for decades?

No, only twenty-five minutes tops. He did seem disoriented at first, but there is no indication he forgot anything owing to the "mind rape" he experienced.

")

 

[Timo]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

...Of course, we have no idea whether he accumulated 20 years' worth of memories - or merely the memory of having accumulated 20 years' worth of memories.

The latter is the likelier case. The goal of the probe was to give aliens a taste of what life had been like on Kataan, and a few highlights on the life of ironweaver Kamin would suffice for that. One would then add to those highlights the illusion of this having been a continuous life, and the aliens would be sufficiently impressed yet not overwhelmed, nor bored to death with the 3,763rd time Kamin scratches his hairy ass in the morning.

Picard probably had it easy compared with O'Brien in "Hard Time". Although that latter sentence, too, probably consisted of just the highlights (or in this case the lowlights) plus the additional impression that this was taking 20 years.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

I think that a few continuing plot lines and story elements would have been good. In the episode where Geordi is brainwashed into becoming a Romulan assassin, at the end Troi says to him that it would take time but that they would work together to get him through it. Then the next episode he is going about as though nothing had happened.

Elements like that would have helped strengthen character relationships even further (not that some needed it), and would also have made Troi's position onboard more understandable.

 

[Dr. Crusher]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

I think the episodic nature of the show was both it's greatest strength and one of its main weaknesses. As a strength, the show invited new fans in regardless of which season you may have started with, and I am definitely an exampe of that kind of a TNG fan. I picked it up very late--while new episodes in the sixth season were originally airing--but, because it was episodic, I could pick it up that late and still get drawn in without having to watch 5+ seasons to understand what was going on. I didn't watch much of DS9, but I understand that the show was exactly the opposite, and that may have been why I didn't get into it.

On the other hand, an episodic show can be problematic when there are few ties that bind one episode or one season to another. There are certainly threads that persist throughout, but they are always secondary to the plot of a particular episode. In addition, the characters felt very stagnant as a result--in real life, who goes for seven years without major life changes? Although there were a handful of them (Worf's son, Alexander, for one), there weren't many others at all. Excluding Wesley, only three long-term characters (I think) permanently moved up in rank--Worf, Troi, and LaForge. Would people as talented as these characters were supposed to be ever sit at a particular level for so many years in reality? I don't think they would. No one started a serious, long-term relationship with someone else (I don't consider the Worf/Troi thing serious, and the Riker/Troi relationship only became serious in the films), and only Worf had any children in the course of the series (Troi's odd pregnancy excepted). Only Data, and perhaps Riker and Crusher with the theater thing, pursued new hobbies that were explored in any depth. If the show had not been so episodic in nature, more of these threads would have hopefully been developed.

As for threads that should have been continued, Spock's presence on Romulus could have made for many interesting episodes, and his appearance in Nemesis may have improved that film. Dr. Juliana Taynor (?), Data's "mother," is never mentioned again past her introductory episode. Kahless as emperor of the Klingon empire was never followed in the series, and I actually thought the episodes that focused on Klingon politics and culture were extremely interesting. I wasn't a huge fan, but I think Dr. Pulaski should have made at least one appearance after season 2, and I agree with the above comment about Riker's father. Nothing is later mentioned about Scotty after "Relics," either, and it would have been nice to know where he ended up. I was disappointed that the relationship between Picard and Crusher was not pursued--getting them together after Nemesis might have been a nice way to end the 24th century chapter of Trek.

 

[CaptainMatt]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Already mentioned, probably, but I wish we could have had seen much more from Sela and Commander Shelby. Roddenberry did say he planned to bring Shelby back after
TBOBW but sadly his death stymied those plans, and Berman must have saw no reason to bring her back.

 

[SchwEnt]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Most every TNG character had experiences that should have altered their lives.

If some of these things happened to people in real life, they'd be changed or substantially affected thereafter. But the majority of the time, the episodic nature of TNG meant the characters go back to the folks we already knew.

Geordi was captured and brainwashed by the Romulans, that's some serious stuff. There's a hint of trouble for him at the end of the eps. But after that, he's right back to normal.

Geordi was also transformed into another species, but again those effects were reversed and he's his old usual self.

Picard was tortured by the Cardies. An ordeal like that in real life would have lasting consequences for a person, but Picard seemed to get back to normal without any troubles that we saw.

Riker and Geordi and others were abducted by those subspace aliens and suffered experiments. Again, stuff like that would mess up people for life. We never really saw any consequences after the fact.

Troi suffered mind rapes and other mental/empathic misfortunes. She recovered remarkably well.

Picard's assimilation by the Borg is maybe the only event that stayed with the character and changed him as a result.

I guess it's science fiction, but within seven years these characters suffered ordeals that would knock most of us on our asses for life. They all faced encounters that should have haunted them up mentally and physically and emotionally. Incredibly resilient, this crew is.

 

[milo bloom]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

...Of course, we have no idea whether he accumulated 20 years' worth of memories - or merely the memory of having accumulated 20 years' worth of memories.

The latter is the likelier case. The goal of the probe was to give aliens a taste of what life had been like on Kataan, and a few highlights on the life of ironweaver Kamin would suffice for that. One would then add to those highlights the illusion of this having been a continuous life, and the aliens would be sufficiently impressed yet not overwhelmed, nor bored to death with the 3,763rd time Kamin scratches his hairy ass in the morning.

Picard probably had it easy compared with O'Brien in "Hard Time". Although that latter sentence, too, probably consisted of just the highlights (or in this case the lowlights) plus the additional impression that this was taking 20 years.

Timo Saloniemi

Didn't Ron Moore recently say something about this episode? About how at the time they didn't think of it, but in hindsight it would have been devastating for Picard and that it probably merited followup.

 

[Mojochi]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

I wasn't a huge fan, but I think Dr. Pulaski should have made at least one appearance after season 2

Interestingly enough, I've always believed that, with a few tweaks, "Ethics" (Where Worf has his spine replaced) would have been infinitely more dramatic & captivating had the other doctor been Pulaski. I couldn't think of a better way to have her reappear, than in a medical scenario like that, involving Crusher having a differing opinion

I agree that events like Laforge's brainwashing, Riker's imprisonment in "Frame of Mind" Picard's Kataan mind probe, & even his being broken under torture in Chain Of Command, or his complete rape by the Borg would be events that might not only require long periods of therapy & being relieved of duty, but in some cases might be the end of someone's career. That's just not how TNG rolls though. Time & time again, they move on, because that's the format. I am just grateful that they grew the characters in whatever ways the could manage

It's always been a pity to me that when Lal dies, Data is incapable of true grief, yet we know he ultimately gets an emotion chip, & I sometimes wish we'd gotten to see his belated response to that loss, once he is able to reflect on it with feelings

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

I guess the other extreme would be Farscape? Referring to and even showing scenes from several episodes back.

Not sure if TNG would've worked that way, but some stronger continuity (?) would have been nice.

Maybe an episode where Troi gets a letter from Tom Riker.

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

I believe the reason there weren't more follow ups and story arcs in TNG is because of the episode "Family".

Now I'm only going by my memory of the TNG Companion book which I read many years ago, but I believe I read that Michael Piller had a hell of a time convincing Rick Berman on doing a follow up to TBOBW. He finally relented and allowed them to do it, but insisted there be a sci-fi story for the B plot. When nothing worked out (sci-fi wise) they went with the three stories about family members.

According to the book, the ratings for "Family" were some of the lowest for the season and it might have scared them off from doing more of these kinds of stories which is really unfortunate.

 

[Tiberius]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Worse yet is the existence of Sela, a character that's probably the worst mistake TNG ever made. And they did it more than once (!) in two of the most potentially awesome stories TNG had to tell. Baffling. I realize that Crosby wanted back in, but it still doesn't excuse it, especially since the character was inserted into the Klingon Civil War and the return of Spock. Again....baffling.

Remember what Sela told Picard about her mother's death? She felt that Tasha betrayed that Romulan guy when he tried to kidnap Sela and escape. This could easily lead to Sela feeling that Tasha betrayed her father, leading to a hatred of Humans and thus the Federation.

Sela working to create a Klingon civil war? This would undoubtedly cause a rift between the Klingons and the Federation, and it could bring the Klingons and the Romulans together again, giving them the chance to destroy the Federation. The way that the events of Unification could damage the Federation is quite obvious. These are both plausible lines for Sela to have gone done.

 

[Tiberius]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

...Of course, we have no idea whether he accumulated 20 years' worth of memories - or merely the memory of having accumulated 20 years' worth of memories.

The latter is the likelier case. The goal of the probe was to give aliens a taste of what life had been like on Kataan, and a few highlights on the life of ironweaver Kamin would suffice for that. One would then add to those highlights the illusion of this having been a continuous life, and the aliens would be sufficiently impressed yet not overwhelmed, nor bored to death with the 3,763rd time Kamin scratches his hairy ass in the morning.

Picard probably had it easy compared with O'Brien in "Hard Time". Although that latter sentence, too, probably consisted of just the highlights (or in this case the lowlights) plus the additional impression that this was taking 20 years.

Timo Saloniemi

Agreed. How many memories do you have from the last twenty years? Certainly not twenty years' worth! You remember only memorable events, not every second.

 

[M-Red]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Remember what Sela told Picard about her mother's death? She felt that Tasha betrayed that Romulan guy when he tried to kidnap Sela and escape. This could easily lead to Sela feeling that Tasha betrayed her father, leading to a hatred of Humans and thus the Federation.

Sela working to create a Klingon civil war? This would undoubtedly cause a rift between the Klingons and the Federation, and it could bring the Klingons and the Romulans together again, giving them the chance to destroy the Federation. The way that the events of Unification could damage the Federation is quite obvious. These are both plausible lines for Sela to have gone done.

Yeah those are good points, if you accept the broader premise.


Sela was a half-human offspring from a human female concubine. Romulan society was xenophobic, and the government was intensely secretive and exclusionary. This human love-slave's child supposedly flourished so greatly in this environment that she rose through the imperial ranks to the position of Commander by her mid-20s, and she's spearheading plots and making decisions that will certainly be consequential for the entire society and empire. I just didn't buy it....


(Otoh, if you take Shinzon into account.....jeez. What is it with the Romulans letting humans run their empire?)


It was just very jarring for me, especially given the stories she was involved in. Probably wouldn't have mattered so much to me if she had her own stand-alone episode(s). But we had to make time for her alongside Worf's turn to the Klingon Empire during the CW, and again with Leonard Nimoy's appearance on TNG. Just didn't fit, though I will say that her appearance in Unification was better imo than in Redemption.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

I am quite happy with the episodic nature of TNG.

Not constantly referencing past loves is a convention of the TV show format, and I can live with it; let's face it, most "romance-of-the-week" episodes (not just in TNG, but any show) need some suspension of disbelief to accept.

As for a follow-up to "Inner Light" showing Picard dealing with it... what would the story be? How would it be dramatically playable for 45 minutes? How would you differ it sufficiently from "Family" to make it a good, worthwhile episode? And if you do this, where do you draw the line?

Picard recovering from "Chain of Command"?
Worf recovering from breaking his back/dying(!) in "Ethics"? (He was jumping around a forest the week after with Riker!)

I know why fans would like this kind of continuity/introspection, but - from a pragmatic "will this make good TV" and, with TNG's remit, will it also be something unique/different from what Trek has done so much - I'm not convinced.

As for more general themese/storylines/characters that should've been followed up:

- I liked the original idea for "Force of Nature" with Geordi's sister, and him having a hard time accepting their mother's apparent death, and how the upset over the Warp Drive made him uncertain about ANYTHING in his life. That could've been a great ep.

- I didn't need to see Shelby again, but I feel Sela warranted some final closure.

- I suppose a standard answer is "the aliens from Conspiracy". As long as the story wasn't just a retread of events in that episode, it might have been interesting.

- Definitely wanted a return by Pulaski. As with another poster here, I also liked the idea of her being in "Ethics", but you'd have to be careful to make both sides' arguments equally compelling otherwise Pulaski would've come across as a "bad guy" (and to those of us who prefer her to Crusher, that would've been an issue!!)

....I'm sure there's more, but not much I can think of. TNG really was that good.

 

[nnnnnnn]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Schisms enemies never reappeared, even though at the end of the episode it was suggested they would.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

Pulaski is a character who I didn't particularly like when I first watched season 2 of TNG, but in retrospective she was a much more interesting character than Crusher, and she developed more in 1 season than Crusher did in all 6 seasons that she was on the show. But I digress......I love TNG to death, so I'm still really happy with the way the show turned out. I was never bothered by the episodic nature of the show. It worked for the kinds of the stories they were trying to tell.

 

[Gary7]

Re: Missed opportunities and oversights given the episodic nature of T

There have been a number of times when Picard, Riker, or Data said farewell to an alien or group of beings, with a weakly offered promise of returning "someday." And that never happened. It would've been nice to see it take place, at least a few times.

About the only real trauma ever carried forward was Picard's abduction by the Borg. Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, there were plenty of traumas experienced by other crew members that don't get revisited. And of course, we have Data's gradual evolution, built upon past experiences.

DS9 did a much more extensive job of serializing. It would've been great to see more of that in TNG... still mostly episodic, but with enough carry over across episodes to appease those people who craved serialized elements.