Miranda->Nebula->??
- Thread starter Overgeeked
- Start date
^ But that just said that Nebulas do scientific missions, in addition to a bunch of other missions. Kinda like the Galaxy class. Sounds more like it would be a multi-role Explorer, like the Galaxy, or perhaps Heavy Cruiser like the Ambassador or Constitution.
As for the Dominion War... in-universe, the Mirandas were probably more plentiful because they had been around for a century and there were just more of them.
As for the Dominion War... in-universe, the Mirandas were probably more plentiful because they had been around for a century and there were just more of them.
We really have no idea what "science vessel" means. Quite possibly Sulu's Excelsior was designated Science Vessel for the duration of her mission to chart gaseous anomalies (while simultaneously designated a Border Patrol Cutter for her other ongoing mission).
Would the Sovereign class have a nacelles-down companion? As far as we can tell, neither the Excelsior nor Ambassador classes had one, certainly not in prevalence comparable to that of Mirandas and Nebulas (i.e. never onscreen). There were some Excelsior kitbashes, but those were of debatable scale, possibly much smaller than the nacelles-up versions.
Timo Saloniemi
Would the Sovereign class have a nacelles-down companion? As far as we can tell, neither the Excelsior nor Ambassador classes had one, certainly not in prevalence comparable to that of Mirandas and Nebulas (i.e. never onscreen). There were some Excelsior kitbashes, but those were of debatable scale, possibly much smaller than the nacelles-up versions.
Timo Saloniemi
It probably says that the Reliant model was easier to handle when setting up and filming special effects shots. I think "The Wounded" pretty much puts the "science vessel" idea to bed.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Akira class. I think I would equate that to an analog of a Sovereign-era Miranda-type vessel. It is smaller than the Sovereign physically, but could easily hold its own in a fight, it has under-slung warp nacelles, twin hangars in the rear of the primary hull and a roll bar with weapons pod. Very much a member of the Miranda/Nebula family tree, IMO.
It would seem the Mirandas were made around the same time as the Connies (or the refits), give or take a few years, so not really in a time of war. From the sheer numbers of Mirandas we saw onscreen, they were probably a quicker build, so a lot more of them when there was a war.
The Nebula pod is almost certainly swapable, even if we disregard the odd one-off variants (kitbashes) we saw in BOBW. I imagine they could put a full-out weapons pod up there, even though they didn't (from a visual POV) for the Dominion War™.
Compared to the conjectural registry number for the USS Galaxy, some Nebulas had earlier registry numbers and might have preceded the Galaxy. In universe, the Galaxy project could have had some problems (instability in the neck section?).
As regards full-out weapons pods, the standard triangle very much looks like it could be "it".
The final paint/drilling/greebling job seems to give six torpedo tube openings aft, four paired phaser turrets per side, and at least two torpedo tubes forward. The final CGI omits some of the aft torpedo tubes, though. In any case, there's more firepower there in terms of sheer emplacement numbers than in any full starship from the TOS movie era; the actual "caliber" of the weapons remains unknown, of course.
Timo Saloniemi
The final paint/drilling/greebling job seems to give six torpedo tube openings aft, four paired phaser turrets per side, and at least two torpedo tubes forward. The final CGI omits some of the aft torpedo tubes, though. In any case, there's more firepower there in terms of sheer emplacement numbers than in any full starship from the TOS movie era; the actual "caliber" of the weapons remains unknown, of course.
Timo Saloniemi
There are definitely renderings that have fore and aft torpedo launchers. It wouldn't be hard to imagine many more launchers along the sides of the triangular pod.
It's a shame we never saw such a pod in action during the many battle scenes on DS9.
Similar looking pods may have many different uses. One option could be full of sensor pallets and no weapons at all, if that were the need.
Nice looking alternate pod here: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/File:Nebula_class_alternate_sensor_pod_mock-up.jpg
It's a shame we never saw such a pod in action during the many battle scenes on DS9.
Similar looking pods may have many different uses. One option could be full of sensor pallets and no weapons at all, if that were the need.
Nice looking alternate pod here: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/File:Nebula_class_alternate_sensor_pod_mock-up.jpg
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^^^ That would have been a supremely cool thing to see on a Nebula. There's also this rather well-known fan-made design of an Ambassador-era Nebula-style vessel with a seriously bad-ass looking dual weapon/sensor pod: the Apollo-class Tactical Cruiser, by Eric Peterson.
^ I remember seeing that one too and I like it as much as the other "compact" versions. Angled downward like that looks cool, but might alter the firing arc of any weapons on the edges.
Think I threw up in my mouth, just a little bit.
I agree with this sentiment.
I don't think the ship itself really looks that bad... I'm just trying to figure out why anyone would ever name a ship after the "ghost" from "Sub Rosa"...
The "alternate pod" kitbash looks sort of less threatening than the standard triangle - why, it's some surplus Miranda launcher dragged out of the back shelf and bolted onto a modern supership for want of anything that would be actually useful!
If something else altogether were installed in the middle, the split design would indeed look more menacing and would provide welcome visual variety. Spare the Miranda pod for creative variants of the roll bar of that specific class...
Timo Saloniemi
If something else altogether were installed in the middle, the split design would indeed look more menacing and would provide welcome visual variety. Spare the Miranda pod for creative variants of the roll bar of that specific class...
Timo Saloniemi
Although you can't extrapolate ship designs the way the thread is trying to do (because tech doesn't develop in a lineage, but rather as needs require - like Mercury, Apollo, etc), the heavy cruiser role seems to have gone:
NX-Class > ??????? > Constitution > Excelsior > Ambassador > Galaxy > Sovereign
And the medium cruiser role:
JJTrek medium cruiser > ????? > Miranda > ?????? > Nebula
But Starfleet doesn't operate like that - with some sort of lineage; the classes are made to fill the needs of the time. It seems for example that the Federation operated another heavy cruiser in conjunction with the Excelsior - the Constellation class.
NX-Class > ??????? > Constitution > Excelsior > Ambassador > Galaxy > Sovereign
And the medium cruiser role:
JJTrek medium cruiser > ????? > Miranda > ?????? > Nebula
But Starfleet doesn't operate like that - with some sort of lineage; the classes are made to fill the needs of the time. It seems for example that the Federation operated another heavy cruiser in conjunction with the Excelsior - the Constellation class.
Yeah, if it were just different looking than a Miranda torpedo launcher, it would look better. I still wonder what the other 2 sections actually are. No specific greeblies to indicate more launchers or phasers.
TNG era phasers are almost always "strip type", so some short strips on any part of a Nebula pod would at least indicate phasers.
I was thinking other types of pods could be: (@ much, much thicker) a massive shuttle/fighter carrier pod; landable colony cargo pod; a landable colony (or other type) ship; massive deflector array (to move asteroids or moons); super-massive mega-phaser array (makes the one on the Galaxy X look like small potatoes).
Quite so. But since some TNG era ships emit phaser beams from locations that have no strips, we might still continue to believe in point emitters of some sort - and the paired greeblies on the side trenches of the Nebula pod (and perhaps also this split pod, if completed out of molds for the triangle pod in the finalized version) might serve that purpose.
We'd just have to postulate a different "caliber" so that they only get used on "special occasions". Rapid but weak fire against swarming small drones? Biblical-level beams for planetary bombardment, difficult to steer and impractical against starship targets?
Unfortunately, while dialogue from "The Battle" establishes that Picard's old Stargazer did have separate "main" phasers, no onscreen support exists for such division in the TNG era. To the contrary, the shortest strips of USS Voyager are equal to the longest in heavy antiship action.
Khan does choose the guns on the roll bar of the Reliant exclusively over the ones on the saucer, but we don't know his reasoning. Perhaps he just didn't have enough crew for the other guns, and the roll bar ones could share resources with the torpedoes that he needed in any case?
Just for completeness, I'll add the one on the proto-Nebula of "BoBW", and further postulate that it's a warp-capable vessel in its own right - possibly a spyship to be deployed inside enemy territory (small=stealth, but mothership=safety when stealth fails), or a troopship, something capable of a final warp dash to the "beach" and then a landing the bulky mothership could never perform safely (although I trust she could land after a fashion with enough care).
Timo Saloniemi
I said earlier "disregarding the BOBW variants", because they were kitbashes-of-the-moment and far off in the distance and probably had no thought put into their design.
Though, the one with the small warp nacelles could have the nacelles connected to the saucer (some drawings indicate this might be the case), so they would go with the saucer in the case of separation. No Warp 9, but better than no warp at all.
Though, the one with the small warp nacelles could have the nacelles connected to the saucer (some drawings indicate this might be the case), so they would go with the saucer in the case of separation. No Warp 9, but better than no warp at all.
I don't think the pod is warp-capable but I think it has Impulse Engines and is capable of firing the weapons mounted on it (Phaser Banks, Photon Torpedo Launchers).
@PhaserLightShow
According to the new photos recently released by Rick Sternbach (having been discussed at length here and here), they appear to be attached to a small vehicle resting above the aft section of the secondary hull. The same piece is also attached to the Springfield class starship type USS Chekov, but without the mini-engines. Probably supposed to be a detachable support craft of some kind, around similar dimensions as maybe a Defiant-type.
And certainly looking at least as representative and respectable as most of the stuff that gets close-ups in Trek.
As for saucer warp engines, the Nebula probably already has those. After all, the E-D saucer does medium to high warp all on its own in "Encounter at Farpoint", and is supposed to independently accelerate to interstellar speeds in "Arsenal of Freedom"; the two ship classes have almost identical saucers, so the same warp engines could be aboard the Nebula primary hull as well, even if her impulse engines are very different-looking.
OTOH, the E-D saucer warp engines may be those clusters of blue-glowing squares at dorsal aft. The Nebula saucer lacks those in all the variants.
Timo Saloniemi
As for saucer warp engines, the Nebula probably already has those. After all, the E-D saucer does medium to high warp all on its own in "Encounter at Farpoint", and is supposed to independently accelerate to interstellar speeds in "Arsenal of Freedom"; the two ship classes have almost identical saucers, so the same warp engines could be aboard the Nebula primary hull as well, even if her impulse engines are very different-looking.
OTOH, the E-D saucer warp engines may be those clusters of blue-glowing squares at dorsal aft. The Nebula saucer lacks those in all the variants.
Timo Saloniemi
