Memory Beta and novels

[Markonian]

Just a heads-up.
Following a few discussions recently on Memory Beta, pages that cite a novel will now automatically generate the category "Memory Beta articles sourced from novels".

This is to allow finding articles that include materials from Trek novels.
Example: One of the discussions last week pointed out that Memory Beta lists loads of starships but you cannot tell which ones are rando's without definitive history (e.g. Akira-class ships from Star Trek: Armada games) as opposed to ships with a specific history deriving from a narrative.

While not all game-only ships are randomised, this will make it easier when looking for something specific, e.g. novel-only ships.
> Source: https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Category_talk:Memory_Beta_articles_sourced_from_novels

Memory Beta does not differentiate between different continuities. If a character appears in novels, comics and games, their history within an official universe (prime universe, mirror universe, Kelvin timeline, etc.) is presented in a chronological fashion. Contradictions are noted if needed (e.g. Hugh died in 2380 and commands Borg Cooperative flagship in 2410).
> Another point of criticism was that all the information is lumped together, with the sources cited at the end of the paragraph. Thus making it impossible to tell which information stems from which source.
> During the discussion, it came up that it is policy to add reference tags to the information in addition to citing the source at the end (when there are multiple pieces of info with different sources). This policy should be enacted again.
> An example for what that looks like is the intro of Oason, the Wadi homeworld. (https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Oason).

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Personal opinion.
There was an attempt two years ago to start a novelvese-only wiki that seems to have died down.
Imho, this is a good way to incorporate every source without being preferential to any medium. Funnily enough, when I play STO I often see "those stupid novels", and in the Literature forum you may get eye-rolls out of a mention of STO. Even I think some sources are plain silly (ST: Trexels, comics where the Enterprise rides on rocket fire, Starship Armitage, TNG Season 8) but that doesn't make them any less a depiction of reality within the Trek universe(s).

So, for those of you who like to skip info from particular sources, do you agree or disagree this is a practical approach?

 

[Jinn]

First of all, I'm glad things like this are being discussed, and solutions are being found! That being said,

While not all game-only ships are randomised, this will make it easier when looking for something specific, e.g. novel-only ships.

I'm not quite clear on how exactly that would work. Like, say I want to find a Talon class ship that's from the novels, is there specific "Talon class ship articles sourced from novels" sub-category? Or do I have to click through all the Talon class ship articles and check the category whether it has the "sourced from novels" category? If it's the latter, I really don't think that's practical, since my goal would be to weed out the Armada ships to only get the ones with substantial stories. As articles for Armada ships and the like tend to all be identical, with the names swapped out I think it's much easier to just check whether the article "looks" like an Armada ship article and then move on, rather than to specifically go through all the categories, looking for that specific one.

If the goal really just is to make it apparant from where an article is sourced at a glance, an approach like Jedipedia has for showing which in-universe era an article belongs to (for example this article on the Imperial Senate has these little two black/white icons in the top right hand corner, that show that it's from the Rise of the Empire era and the era of the rebellion.) Something like that could make it very easy to see at a glance from where an article is sourced.

> Another point of criticism was that all the information is lumped together, with the sources cited at the end of the paragraph. Thus making it impossible to tell which information stems from which source.
> During the discussion, it came up that it is policy to add reference tags to the information in addition to citing the source at the end (when there are multiple pieces of info with different sources). This policy should be enacted again.

That's great to hear!

 

[JD]

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Personal opinion.
There was an attempt two years ago to start a novelvese-only wiki that seems to have died down.

Just as an FYI, the "attempt to start a novelverse only wiki" did not really die down. Memory Omega is around, admittedly it's pretty much just me and one other person adding articles at the moment, but we are up to 645, and counting. It's also not just a Novelverse wiki, it's all books and comics.

Imho, this is a good way to incorporate every source without being preferential to any medium. Funnily enough, when I play STO I often see "those stupid novels", and in the Literature forum you may get eye-rolls out of a mention of STO. Even I think some sources are plain silly (ST: Trexels, comics where the Enterprise rides on rocket fire, Starship Armitage, TNG Season 8) but that doesn't make them any less a depiction of reality within the Trek universe(s).

I'm still not a fan of trying to put everything together, even when the stuff is separated out, it's still a pain in the ass to have to wade through a huge article which includes everything, when all your interested in is stuff from just the books, or just the comics. Memory Omega does put all of the books and comics together, but at least in this case it's only two mediums, so there's nowhere near the volume of stuff that you find at Memory Beta, and the books and comics do tend to be connected a lot more often than the books and video games or stuff like that. I can see where that works for something like Star Wars where it's all interconnected, but the different mediums aren't that connected with Star Trek.

 

[Markonian]

I'm not quite clear on how exactly that would work. Like, say I want to find a Talon class ship that's from the novels, is there specific "Talon class ship articles sourced from novels" sub-category? Or do I have to click through all the Talon class ship articles and check the category whether it has the "sourced from novels" category? If it's the latter, I really don't think that's practical, since my goal would be to weed out the Armada ships to only get the ones with substantial stories. As articles for Armada ships and the like tend to all be identical, with the names swapped out I think it's much easier to just check whether the article "looks" like an Armada ship article and then move on, rather than to specifically go through all the categories, looking for that specific one.

I see what you mean. Let's say you wanted to look for that Talon class gig that delivered Kamemor to the Sol system in '84, but can't remember its name. So find it, you'd have to click on every Talon-class ship until you find the one with the Novels category included.

I've seen those little era-specific icons on the Wookieepedia page you mention.

Edit (18-Apr-20): Currently, one contributor is establishing the source-specific categories. I'm keeping my appendages off that to avoid messing up a WIP. But, there's the start of categories of ships per faction. Example: https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Memory_Beta:Federation_starships_sourced_from_novels_(A)

Just as an FYI, the "attempt to start a novelverse only wiki" did not really die down. Memory Omega is around, admittedly it's pretty much just me and one other person adding articles at the moment, but we are up to 645, and counting. It's also not just a Novelverse wiki, it's all books and comics.

I'm sorry for my incorrect statement. Last week was the last time I checked the page, but I need to give it a closer look.
Btw, have you seen the Star Trek: Adventures RPGs? Some of them reference TrekLit. The newest, Delta Quadrant Sourcebook, has Admiral Janeway mention the newly elected President Nanietta Bacco in 2379.

 

[JD]

No, but that still doesn't change my opinion.
I've been working on adding pages for the Titan, Destiny, and Typhon Pact books to Memory Omega for the last couple weeks, and the other regular contributor on there, The Doctor has been adding even more stuff than that.