Meat Eater / Vegetarian / Vegan

[trampledamage]

My feeling then was a strong instinctive feeling that killing animals for food was wrongful. I felt that an animals life has more intrinsic value than my selfish desire to satisfy a few hours of hunger. And if we could go back in time, then I'd rather forego the meal and allow the animal to live, as it seems to want to do, in its own peaceful way.

Like I said, animals kill EACH OTHER for food. So that, IMHO, gives us the right to kill them.

That gives you the right to hunt, not sure it gives you the right to eat meat of animals raised in pens, stuffed full of hormones and never allowed to live normally.

 

[Cornholio]

My feeling then was a strong instinctive feeling that killing animals for food was wrongful. I felt that an animals life has more intrinsic value than my selfish desire to satisfy a few hours of hunger. And if we could go back in time, then I'd rather forego the meal and allow the animal to live, as it seems to want to do, in its own peaceful way.

Like I said, animals kill EACH OTHER for food. So that, IMHO, gives us the right to kill them.

That's flawed logic, since it can also be used to justify murder.

only if the murderer is also a cannibal.

Do you mean this as some kind of judge and executioner? If so, then note that cows do not go around killing other animals, so would seem innocent in the eyes of justice.

Cows are among the most vicious creatures on the planet, far worse than hippos, which is why we keep them carefully penned up behind fences.

As most any dairy farmer can attest, "Mooooo...." translates as "milk me or I'll kill you."

Sure, occassionally you get a wimpy one like Ferdinand the bull, but most delight in trying to gore and trample Spaniards and the occassional tourist.

The danger becomes even greater when they grab guns.

I like cows. seein' 'em always reminds me of the immortal Jayne Cobb. there's a bunch of them wandering around on my brother-in-law's ranch. they're fun to chase around, just watch out for the poop. some will try to stare you down and stand their ground, but they always eventually end up mooooving off. it's also fun to go cow tipping at night. you really gotta watch out for the poop then.

seein' 'em always reminds me of the immortal Jayne Cobb.

they're pretty tasty too.

 

[gturner]

Like I said, animals kill EACH OTHER for food. So that, IMHO, gives us the right to kill them.

That gives you the right to hunt, not sure it gives you the right to eat meat of animals raised in pens, stuffed full of hormones and never allowed to live normally.

I agree that "right" is the wrong word. The correct word is "duty" - duty to the environment, the global ecosystem, and our own species.

Given that we have vast pens full of soft, tasty animals that are stuffed with artificial growth hormones, what would happen if we didn't eat them? I'll tell you what: They'd quickly fall prey to predators, who would then have unlimited food stuffed with artificial growth hormones. That would cause a historically unprecedented population explosion of super-predators who would rapidly eat their way through this planet's entire stock of animal life, including humans.

 

[scotpens]

I like cows. seein' 'em always reminds me of the immortal Jayne Cobb. . . . it's also fun to go cow tipping at night.

Cows remind me of Tori Spelling. Except that cows are prettier, and not nearly as annoying.

As for cow tipping, what is the correct amount to tip a cow? Is it acceptable to stiff a cow if she gives lousy milk?

 

[trampledamage]

Like I said, animals kill EACH OTHER for food. So that, IMHO, gives us the right to kill them.

That gives you the right to hunt, not sure it gives you the right to eat meat of animals raised in pens, stuffed full of hormones and never allowed to live normally.

I agree that "right" is the wrong word. The correct word is "duty" - duty to the environment, the global ecosystem, and our own species.

Given that we have vast pens full of soft, tasty animals that are stuffed with artificial growth hormones, what would happen if we didn't eat them? I'll tell you what: They'd quickly fall prey to predators, who would then have unlimited food stuffed with artificial growth hormones. That would cause a historically unprecedented population explosion of super-predators who would rapidly eat their way through this planet's entire stock of animal life, including humans.

You're right! For the sake of the world, I'd better eat a burger

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

My feeling then was a strong instinctive feeling that killing animals for food was wrongful. I felt that an animals life has more intrinsic value than my selfish desire to satisfy a few hours of hunger. And if we could go back in time, then I'd rather forego the meal and allow the animal to live, as it seems to want to do, in its own peaceful way.

Like I said, animals kill EACH OTHER for food. So that, IMHO, gives us the right to kill them.

That gives you the right to hunt, not sure it gives you the right to eat meat of animals raised in pens, stuffed full of hormones and never allowed to live normally.

And this is what I think needs reform. I also think we would do well, in restaurants and our own consumption, to buy smaller portions of meat. Each person should be the judge of that, but we need to make sure in my opinion that what we buy, we eat. I always feel bad in restaurants when they don't offer smaller/half portions and something ends up going to waste.

As I said before, I wouldn't be able to live on a vegetarian diet given the limits acid reflux places on what fruits and vegetables I can eat (add in the REALLY strong gag reflex with salad and other similar items and I'm REALLY screwed). I do think that being less wasteful (so that nothing dies without a purpose) and being more humane to our animals have to be good things.

 

[TerokNor]

Certainly agree with that. When killing and eating animals, one should value their life and be grateful for the food....which means good living conditions for the animals before they die and painless, fast deaths without much transportation, as well as not sqandering the food.

TerokNor

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Um...what? I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or you really mean it. Are you spoofing something I'm unfamiliar with?

Look up on youtube for a scene from Casino where Pesci chews out DeNiro.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Or do you mean that the existence of predators somehow gives you the right to be a predator too?

that's pretty much it, yeah. And even so, I personally am not a predator. I don't kill the animals. I merely eat them. They're already dead; *someone* might as well make their death worthwhile...

But why does your moral logic not translate to other acts of hostility? For example, does the existence of thieves give you the right to be a thief too?

No, because stealing is against the law. Eating meat is not. (You wouldn't want it to be...would you? )

 

[Cornholio]

I like cows. seein' 'em always reminds me of the immortal Jayne Cobb. . . . it's also fun to go cow tipping at night.

Cows remind me of Tori Spelling. Except that cows are prettier, and not nearly as annoying.

As for cow tipping, what is the correct amount to tip a cow? Is it acceptable to stiff a cow if she gives lousy milk?

the standard 15% gratuity applies.

if you're unhappy, complain to the management.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I'm still looking for the poll option "I'm a vegetarian but I want to eat meat."

In fact, the poll is missing several options: omnivore (animal, vegetable or mineral: if it tickles my taste buds, it's in my belly), breathairian, omnivore but I want to eat only meat, omnivore but I want to be a vegetarian, omnivore but I want to be a vegan; vegan but I want to be an omnivore, vegan but I want to be a vegetarian, vegan but I want to be a meat-eater, vegan but I want to be a breathairian.... I mean, I could go on...

I'm hoping they're just mere oversights rather than part of an underlying agenda...

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

. . . why aren't all cheeses made without animal products when it's not neccessary anymore?

Isn't cheese, by definition, made from milk, which is an animal product?

Thats one thing that bothered me in Star Trek. Yes, being cruel and killing animals may be wrong, but I do not think all humans could live on a Vegetarian diet..

When was it stated in Star Trek that humans were vegetarian? In TOS, the only race who were explicitly vegetarian were Vulcans. By the time of TNG, they had food replicators, which meant you could replicate meat without killing any animals.

There was an episode in DS9 which one of the O'Briens expressed disgust because the other O'Brien's parent would cook real meat. I am not sure if it was Keiko expressing disgust over Miles's parent or Miles talking about Keiko's parent.

It's from the TNG episode The Wounded

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=iTxLpHZbzeA&feature=related[/yt]

Also in TNG, Tasha complains to the captain because some guests on board are slaughtering animals for food.

Ah yes. Lonely Among Us. With the classic line "humans no longer enslave animals for food". Way to be subtle there Gene.

 

[Canadave]

Meat eater here. To be honest, I couldn't live on a vegetarian diet. Most vegetables are too bland. I just love my meat too much.

I have the opposite problem. Most vegetables (especially a lot of the standards, like beans, lettuce, etc.) have just too strong a taste for me to stomach. Others, like carrots and broccoli, I literally cannot eat without gagging. Been that way all my life.

 

[Jadzia]

Or do you mean that the existence of predators somehow gives you the right to be a predator too?

that's pretty much it, yeah. And even so, I personally am not a predator. I don't kill the animals. I merely eat them. They're already dead; *someone* might as well make their death worthwhile...

But supply and demand means that you sanctioned the killing, and are morally no different than the killer.

But why does your moral logic not translate to other acts of hostility? For example, does the existence of thieves give you the right to be a thief too?

No, because stealing is against the law. Eating meat is not. (You wouldn't want it to be...would you? )

My question was one of morality, not law.

Law doesn't define what is morally right and wrong; it only defines what is to be punished. Theft isn't wrongful because it is against the law; it is wrongful because it is immoral.

Idealistically, we try to create laws as a reflection of morality, but their creation is most strongly influenced by the common desire to maintain a status quo, and only appealing to what is convenient to change, and to what is practical and popular.


Naturally, if I think something is wrongful, then I think it should be against the law.

 

[Hermiod]

Ah yes. Lonely Among Us. With the classic line "humans no longer enslave animals for food". Way to be subtle there Gene.

It helps when you can use a Replicator and get the same thing.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Meat eater. I don't do well trying to get a lot of fruits and vegetables down (many fruits are too overwhelming in their sweetness, and for vegetables I can't get them down unless they're cooked), so I don't think I could ever have an adequate diet if I tried to go vegetarian or vegan. Acid reflux disease complicates the issue further...too much fruit would set me off badly, or an excess of bitter vegetables, whereas something like chicken or fish doesn't affect me as badly. (Steak...it depends on what's put on it.)

I think that animals need to be treated much more humanely than they are--but for me, it's a choice between eating meat or getting sick from a nutritionally insufficient diet.

EDIT: To sum up--Obligate Omnivore.

This, pretty much to a T.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But supply and demand means that you sanctioned the killing, and are morally no different than the killer.

Well, I'll be sure and send out a telegram once I find this thing that I have lost. What is that, you ask? It's called my "give a damn".

I suppose you're right, though. Perhaps I do sanction the killing of animals for food. Why shouldn't I? Meat tastes good. I enjoy eating it. So therefore I guess I *do* support killing animals for food. That's what they're there for, in the end. We humans are at the top of the food chain. That alone gives us the right to eat any animal or plant. And as I said, this doesn't mean we should *abuse* the things that we eat. Hunting, killing and butchering should all be done humanely.

Naturally, if I think something is wrongful, then I think it should be against the law.

So since you don't eat meat, you don't think I should be allowed to either? You would legislate your own personal beliefs into absolute law? That's not very open-minded, is it?

I would never force you to eat meat, so therefore you cannot force me NOT to.

 

[selina]

I'm a vegetarian, but not a really consistent one. Once a year if my stepafther and my mother invite me for BBQ I'll have my share. Also, I eat gummi bears. I would eat meat on a regular base if I'd ever get the feeling, that overbreeding and cruelty to animals had stopped.

 

[Jetfire]

I eat meat...I could go without it. I went a month eating nothing but fresh veggies and beans, fruit, nuts...whole grain cereal with soy milk. I lost 20+ lbs in that month and lowered my blood pressure so much my doctor asked me how I did it. Plus I drank nothing but water or juice on occasion.

I could go without beef though.

 

[Jadzia]

But supply and demand means that you sanctioned the killing, and are morally no different than the killer.

Well, I'll be sure and send out a telegram once I find this thing that I have lost. What is that, you ask? It's called my "give a damn".

I suppose you're right, though. Perhaps I do sanction the killing of animals for food. Why shouldn't I? Meat tastes good. I enjoy eating it. So therefore I guess I *do* support killing animals for food. That's what they're there for, in the end. We humans are at the top of the food chain. That alone gives us the right to eat any animal or plant.

This is not a counter argument. Your words here are just cognitive bias: an attempt to rationalise an underlying desire.

It is the same cognitive bias which enables humans to rationalise almost any hostile act if they desire it to be so. It happens with war, it happens with the mistreatment of "underlings", it happens with the spanking of children, as it happens with your source of nourishment.

But this weakness is something we can learn to recognise, catch in the act, and transcend.

So since you don't eat meat, you don't think I should be allowed to either? You would legislate your own personal beliefs into absolute law? That's not very open-minded, is it?

On the contrary. Open-minded means "Receptive to new and different ideas." Meat eating is an old, traditional and common idea. Clinging stubbornly to that tradition is what is not being very open minded.