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Maurice Hurley's unused Generations script?

Orphalesion said:
But....he's too quick with the phaser, he gets into fist fights, the way he talks, the way he moves, his womanizing and calling his subordinates by nick-names. Not very admirable characteristics.
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Picard called his people by their first names which is just as unprofessional in a military setting and hung his own nickname on Riker. Picard had his share of dalliances during TNG. The only reason we don't see Picard in a fistfight is because TNG had a different tone. Kirk was every bit the intellectual Picard was.

And Kirk very rarely used his phaser. That is a pop culture interpretation of the character.
 
BillJ said:
Picard called his people by their first names which is just as unprofessional in a military setting and hung his own nickname on Riker. Picard had his share of dalliances during TNG. The only reason we don't see Picard in a fistfight is because TNG had a different tone. Kirk was every bit the intellectual Picard was.
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... at least in later seasons. Off the top of my head, I recall Picard punching a terrorist off his feet in "The High Ground", and Picard fighting off a couple of Klingons in "Sins of the Father"... both in Season 3, before the malaise entirely set in.

And Kirk very rarely used his phaser. That is a pop culture interpretation of the character.
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I could almost swear that's because of a couple of promotional posters too (though I might be wrong).
 
FWIW: As a nine year military veteran, I saw plenty of older officers call subordinate officers by their first names (though usually not in front of NCOs or the enlisted men). In such situations it did not come across as unprofessional.

Sgt. Rhosis
 
I always though Kirk calling his officers by their names showed that they were comfortable working with each other and they had more than a coworker relationship and really were friends. They also called him Jim. I can't see anyone calling Picard by his first name, it's like calling your dad or grandfather by his name, some people do but most don't and it comes off as disrespectful.
 
Marsden said:
I always though Kirk calling his officers by their names showed that they were comfortable working with each other and they had more than a coworker relationship and really were friends. They also called him Jim. I can't see anyone calling Picard by his first name, it's like calling your dad or grandfather by his name, some people do but most don't and it comes off as disrespectful.
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I'm one of those people who used to question why these crews (Kirk's specifically) stuck together so long. But I've come to realize that becoming sort of a "family" to each other is something Starfleet may have no problem with, what with all the time they spend out in endless space together. It may even be preferred, since people of long acquaintance are very apt to be able to 'read' the other person well, which could be an invaluable aid to them in their work.
 
Marsden said:
I always though Kirk calling his officers by their names showed that they were comfortable working with each other and they had more than a coworker relationship and really were friends. They also called him Jim. I can't see anyone calling Picard by his first name, it's like calling your dad or grandfather by his name, some people do but most don't and it comes off as disrespectful.
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Dr. Crusher called him Jean-Luc at times but then she knew longer than the others did. And as far I remeber only Spock and McCoy called Kirk by his first name. But he did tell Picard to call him Jim.
 
DWF said:
Marsden said:
I always though Kirk calling his officers by their names showed that they were comfortable working with each other and they had more than a coworker relationship and really were friends. They also called him Jim. I can't see anyone calling Picard by his first name, it's like calling your dad or grandfather by his name, some people do but most don't and it comes off as disrespectful.
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Dr. Crusher called him Jean-Luc at times but then she knew longer than the others did. And as far I remeber only Spock and McCoy called Kirk by his first name. But he did tell Picard to call him Jim.
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Scotty called Kirk, "Jim" in "Mirror, Mirror".
 
Orphalesion said:
^ I really wanted to make clear that I don't dislike Kirk for being "too American", that was my main point and I didn't want to write redneck or bogan for the 10th time.

In general I find it difficult to describe why I dislike something, because I don't dwell on it. I rather gush about things I like than bash things I dislike. Sleazebag was in hindsight a bad choice of word. However Womanizing is sleazy in my opinion however and he has a sleazy smile.
I don't quite know how to call him. He is not somebody if I met him I would like very much. Yet I can't exactly say I would look down on him either if he was real because he did plenty of heroic things.
But....he's too quick with the phaser, he gets into fist fights, the way he talks, the way he moves, his womanizing and calling his subordinates by nick-names. Not very admirable characteristics.

I think the problem I have with him is that he is, to some extend the archetype of the Military Maverick, which is not a character type I like. I don't watch action movies (literally I don't), I don't like war or military literature. I hate Westerns. He's not the type of character I'm interested in. He's the standard, posturing male, white protagonist.

I think I dislike him for being old-fashioned really.
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I never saw Kirk as a womanizer. Pop culture thinks he is, but he really isn't. He was charming towards women, and women just naturally gravitated towards him. But he always treated them with respect. He didn't hit on every single woman he saw. So he was a ladies' man, but he was not a womanizer.

Unfortunately, JJ Abrams made nuKirk a womanizer.
 
RunawayStarShip said:
... at least in later seasons. Off the top of my head, I recall Picard punching a terrorist off his feet in "The High Ground", and Picard fighting off a couple of Klingons in "Sins of the Father"... both in Season 3, before the malaise entirely set in.
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Starship Mine?
 
Maybe it's because I haven't seen ST09 or STID over and over. (I enjoyed them tremendously, but I haven't gotten around to multiple viewings.)

But what makes nuKirk a womanizer? I don't get it.
 
EnriqueH said:
Maybe it's because I haven't seen ST09 or STID over and over. (I enjoyed them tremendously, but I haven't gotten around to multiple viewings.)

But what makes nuKirk a womanizer? I don't get it.
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He's been strongly suspected of having had the sex with people.
 
EnriqueH said:
Maybe it's because I haven't seen ST09 or STID over and over. (I enjoyed them tremendously, but I haven't gotten around to multiple viewings.)

But what makes nuKirk a womanizer? I don't get it.
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The fact that he hits on mostly every single woman he sees. Also, the fact that when Carol Marcus brought up nurse Chapel, he didn't remember who she was. That pretty much sums up his attitude towards women.
 
According to Vocabulary.com:

A womanizer is a man who always seems to have a new girlfriend, and who has no hesitation about starting up a new relationship before he's ended the last one. Usually, these relationships are sexual and don't last long.

That description does unfortunately fit nuKirk.
 
On reflection, I think Hurley was too far removed by 1994 to really have been able to capture the essence of how the series had evolved since he left. "Picard calls up Kirk in the holodeck to help him deal with an issue" is like something they would have pitched back in 1989 (in fact, in that one-line description, it sounds almost exactly like 'Booby Trap').

One suspects Berman only put him up as the "alternative option" simply so he'd have a fallback in case the studio rejected the Moore/Braga script, or perhaps even as a bargaining chip so he could show both storylines to the studio and say "I think Moore/Braga's is better, but it's your call guys".

One thing Berman was shrewd about was the political studio game. ;)
 
Joel_Kirk said:
According to Vocabulary.com:

A womanizer is a man who always seems to have a new girlfriend, and who has no hesitation about starting up a new relationship before he's ended the last one. Usually, these relationships are sexual and don't last long.

That description does unfortunately fit nuKirk.
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So... popular? I don't remember every woman I've had sex with, of course it's been with more than one or two women.

We've only seen Kirk have sex with three women split over two occasions over the course of four or five years, with another 'maybe' with Chapel.

Is that the definition of a womanizer? I imagine that many men here fit that description.

What would the Roddenberry think of our sinful actions?! :guffaw:
 
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