Matt Jeffries Intentions / Federation Vessel Hull Numbers

[Captain Robert April]

I think a big problem (for lack of a better term) in this has to do with Roddenberry and Jefferies both being Army Air Corps guys. If the designer had been a Navy man, we would've gotten a more logical hull number system (something like CHE-1701, designating the Enterprise as a heavy cruiser explorer), instead of this idea that Jefferies had that draws from aircraft design rather than ship registries (his scheme only works if NCC-1701 was the model of starship the Enterprise was, with the refit being an NCC-1701A, like the difference between a P-51A and a P-51D).

So, do yourselves a favor, kids, don't even try and figure out Jefferies' registry scheme; it doesn't work. It was just a half-finished idea he threw out there and never fleshed out. Leave it be.

 

[Chaos Descending]

The C stands for "cruiser", but you never see it by itself; you also have to describe what type of cruiser, so there's always a second designator.

In the case of aircraft carriers, the V is for "aViation", probably since "A" was already taken for "attack" or "assault" or something else that starts with A. Nobody was specifying "fixed wing" anything, since the first aircraft carrier dates back to only a few years after the Wright Brothers had their triumph at Kitty Hawk (and nobody to my knowledge was launching balloons from ships).

That makes loads of sense, but none of the BUSHIPS or NAVSEA docs I've seen ever said anything of the sort.

I'm curious as to where you got that from?

As a mater of fact, the Enterprise's original designation was CVAN-65, probably to differentiate her from an escort carrier. I guess at some point, somebody figured that the A was superfluous and they shortened it to just CVN-65.

Yeah, Nimitz too. Many nameplates throughout the ship still bore that designation, even though the "CVAN" designation was abolished in 1975, coincidentally the same year that Nimitz was commissioned!

 

[Chaos Descending]

I just found this:

A common question is "what does the 'V' stand for in CV or CVA or CVS or CVE?"

[Thanks to C. Bossie who provided much of the following answer.

The following is taken from "United States Naval Aviation 1910-1995, Appendix 16: US Navy and Marine Corps Squadron Designations and Abbreviations":

On 17 July 1920, the Secretary of the Navy prescribed a standard nomenclature for types and classes of NAVAL VESSELs, including aircraft, in which lighter-than air craft were identified by the type "Z" and heavier-than air craft by the letter "V". The reference also speculates that: "The use of the "V" designation has been a question since the 1920s. However, no conclusive evidence has been found to identify why the letter "V" was chosen. It is generally believed the "V" was in reference to the French word volplane. As a verb, the word means to glide or soar. As a noun, it described an aeronautical device sustained in the air by lifting devices (wings), as opposed to the bag of gas that the airships (denoted by "Z") used. The same case may be regarding the use of "Z". It is generally believed the "Z" was used in deference to Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin. However, documentation has not been located to verify this assumption."​

Here

 

[Forbin]

Ah! Like I said, "heavier than air."

 

[Chaos Descending]

Ah! Like I said, "heavier than air."

Good call, oh Modelsmith.

 

[Forbin]

Ah! Like I said, "heavier than air."

Good call, oh Modelsmith.

The amount of random shit that resides in my brain and cannot be expelled is ridiculous.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Ah! Like I said, "heavier than air."

Good call, oh Modelsmith.

The amount of random shit that resides in my brain and cannot be expelled is ridiculous.

I share your pain.

 

[Forbin]

Good call, oh Modelsmith.

The amount of random shit that resides in my brain and cannot be expelled is ridiculous.

I share your pain.

For instance, about 35 years ago at a campsite in northern NJ, my dad was fiddling with his CB and contacted a local CBer with the call number KQD 2339. I can't frigging get that number out of my head. There are WAY more important things I need to remember that I can't, but that call number won't die and make room for new stuff.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Another little tidbit from that page that could be used to justify Constitution class starships with registries lower than 1700...

It should be noted that in the United States Navy, unlike European Navies, the first ship in a class to be authorized by the US Congress is the designated class leader (class name ship), regardless of the order in which the ships of that class are laid down, launched or commissioned. For example, contrary to many European texts, for the last class of "Standard" battleships, the battleship USS Colorado BB-45 (commissioned 30 August 1923) is the class leader under USN designation standards, not USS Maryland BB-46 (commissioned 21 July 1921). These battleships are thus properly designated as being "USS Colorado BB-45 Class" and not as "USS Maryland BB-46 Class."

What we might be dealing with is a registry system that's separate from the authorization and commissioning system, where registry numbers are set aside before ships are built, sometimes before it's decided what type of ship it's going to be, aside from general requirements (which would also account for some Miranda class ships having registries that would just as well fit Constitution class ships).

Knowing bureaucrats, this is not only possible, it's likely.

 

[Vance]

My personal take with the Constellation (and a few other ships) is that when they went through appropriations, they were meant to be an older class of ship. When the 'time barrier' was broken, though, those older ships were obsolete and the appropriated but not laid-down vessels were simply re-appropriated to one of the new classes.

Should be oddities, though. I really dislike how random Okuda made starship registries. They're almost pointless the way he does them.

 

[Captain Fine]

I really wish Trek Remastered would have gone with NCC-1710 instead. Would have fixed a big error.

 

[Unicron]

What we might be dealing with is a registry system that's separate from the authorization and commissioning system, where registry numbers are set aside before ships are built, sometimes before it's decided what type of ship it's going to be, aside from general requirements (which would also account for some Miranda class ships having registries that would just as well fit Constitution class ships).

Knowing bureaucrats, this is not only possible, it's likely.

IIRC, that's been suggested in a few fanon sources. FJ's registries for the destroyers start in the 500s, and continue into the late 500s and 600s for the scouts. Given that the Hermes is a stripped down Saladin, that could also be interpreted as a special case.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The C stands for "cruiser", but you never see it by itself; you also have to describe what type of cruiser, so there's always a second designator.

In the case of aircraft carriers, the V is for "aViation", probably since "A" was already taken for "attack" or "assault" or something else that starts with A. Nobody was specifying "fixed wing" anything, since the first aircraft carrier dates back to only a few years after the Wright Brothers had their triumph at Kitty Hawk (and nobody to my knowledge was launching balloons from ships).

As a mater of fact, the Enterprise's original designation was CVAN-65, probably to differentiate her from an escort carrier. I guess at some point, somebody figured that the A was superfluous and they shortened it to just CVN-65.

In which case "CV" probably indicates "aviation cruiser" or some other anachronism of early naval tactics.

To extrapolate this into the trekiverse I suppose "NCC" might indicate "command cruiser" if only if was only found on cruiser-sized ships; otherwise, the only possibility is "common command" which would be Federation parlance for "vessel under authority of Starfleet Command." This would set it apart as a Starfleet ship instead of, say, a civilian ship or a Vulcan Science Academy ship or an Andorian Royal Guard ship, etc etc.

 

[Vance]

IIRC, that's been suggested in a few fanon sources. FJ's registries for the destroyers start in the 500s, and continue into the late 500s and 600s for the scouts. Given that the Hermes is a stripped down Saladin, that could also be interpreted as a special case.

It's not so much 'stripped down' as it is 'alternatively equipped' (high-end sensor equipment rather than the phasers and torpedo bays)... the Cygnus, though, as a courier, THAT would be pretty stripped down. But who the heck needs a Class I Courier?

 

[Captain Robert April]

I've always been dubious of the idea of a scout or destroyer with half the warp capacity of a heavy cruiser.

 

[Vance]

Well, it's not the TOP speed that matters for a destroyer, but the 'flanking' speed, or maneuvering speed, in a conflict. It's possible that while the Enterprise can outrun the Saladin over distance, the Saladin may maneuver circles around her tactically.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Personally, I think either designation would require a smaller hull and multiple nacelles. In the case of a destroyer, I think something more along the lines of the Defiant class makes more sense.

 

[Vance]

Personally, I think either designation would require a smaller hull and multiple nacelles. In the case of a destroyer, I think something more along the lines of the Defiant class makes more sense.

Ah, but maneuvering doesn't come from the nacelles.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

In TOS tech convention, it used to. Remember in Elaan of Troyus all the problems they had trying to maneuver at impulse power, which is like "wallowing like a garbage scow" against a warp driven starship. And in this case the Klingons LITERALLY flanked the Enterprise to keep hitting it in the same shield section, at warp seven no less.

Of course, then we get into TNG where warp speed is so fast that it can't be used in combat except in something sophisticated like the Picard maneuver.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

What other designators are used in Trek. I know there's NCC and NAR..