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Matt Jeffries Intentions / Federation Vessel Hull Numbers

You might be right, then, if you've had people question it. I haven't had the similar experience, but it seems logical. Like I said, I'm just loathe to accept 1017 when the 1710 fits that scheme so nicely. But, oh well. ;)

And, I'm just glad you didn't take any personal offense. :)
 
I'd just like to point out that nowhere in canon Trek has it ever been established that the Constitution's registry number is NCC-1700, or that there even is a ship called the Constitution.

Untrue, putting aside 'canon' definitons, the class, registry, and even ship's existance was confirmed in TNG, and then again in TUC. The movies ALSO clearly show 'Constitution Class NCC-1700' in the displays taken from FJ's blueprints. Yeah, it's pretty damn well 'canon', as far as the usual fandom definition goes. You just have to go through a few datapoints.
 
You might be right, then, if you've had people question it. I haven't had the similar experience, but it seems logical. Like I said, I'm just loathe to accept 1017 when the 1710 fits that scheme so nicely. But, oh well. ;)

And, I'm just glad you didn't take any personal offense. :)

On the other hand, there's nothing 'in canon' that says that the Constellation was a Constitution class ship.. just a starship of very similar configuration. :)
 
This is true. I'm rather fond of retconing it as a curiously similar class 10 number 17 as I mentioned upthread. :)
 
My 2cents on the issue...

I think David's analysis is pretty much reasonable, and certainly reflects the original design intent (which, since it's written, plain as day, in MJ's own handwriting, is pretty much indisputable).

Unfortunately, we've had post-TOS shows where the folks making the calls didn't really pay a whole lot of attention to the whys and wherefores of the original concept. This was most egregiously seen when the whole "Constitution-class renumbering" thing happened, but that's by no means the only example we've got.

Ultimately, if we want to match what MJ intended to what came along in later series, we have to make decisions about what part to keep and what part to throw away...

...OR....

We can assume that Starfleet, and the Federation, are very much like their modern equivalents here on Earth... and are bureaucratic nightmares where egos and nonsensical decisions abound and trump "reason" regularly.

So...

Perhaps during the early days of the Federation, up to (and through) the construction of the Constitution-class, this scheme was in place. But the scheme got "improved" by some folks who really didn't know anything about, nor care to know anything about, why things were done as they originally were.

Maybe Fleet Admiral Hihachiro Nogura didn't personally like the "first characters are for design, second characters for sequence" and he directed that to be abandoned, instead going with a sequential system (starting just after the highest number yet constructed at the time)?

Maybe the Federation Counsel's Budget Committee found the system too confusing and pushed for a "simpler to read on this year's budget" version?

Lots of possibilities... very few which make LOGICAL sense, but plenty which would make "real-world" sense. That sort of thing happens in our world every day... and there's something almost comforting to know that the people in Trek's future really are as flawed, stupid, and ego-driven as people in our own time. ;)
 
Good thoughts, Cary. I'm all for suggesting that a version of the "original" Jefferies system was once in use but was later replaced by a sequential system. :)
 
I'd just like to point out that nowhere in canon Trek has it ever been established that the Constitution's registry number is NCC-1700, or that there even is a ship called the Constitution.

Untrue, putting aside 'canon' definitons, the class, registry, and even ship's existance was confirmed in TNG, and then again in TUC. The movies ALSO clearly show 'Constitution Class NCC-1700' in the displays taken from FJ's blueprints. Yeah, it's pretty damn well 'canon', as far as the usual fandom definition goes. You just have to go through a few datapoints.

Not trying to argue with you, but none of what you said is true either. Nothing was "confirmed" in TNG other than Picard stating to Scotty that the original Enterprise was Constitution class. He didn't state the Constitution's registry number. As for the movies, absolutely nothing is "clear," either in TUC or the barely glimpsed smudges that were transparencies opf FJ's diagrams seen for half a second on a background viewscreen.

Again, I'm not arguing with you. I believe the Constitution exists, and I believe its registry is NCC-1700. But there's nothing concrete on screen that proves it.
 
Depends on your definition of canon, really. Does on screen but imperceptible = on screen? Or if it's not clearly visible, is it not really on screen?
 
I think Jeffries' intentions were that every number should sound funny. 1701 sounds funny. 1701-a sounds funnier. 74205 doesn't sound funny. :D
 
GNDN,

Don't worry about it, there was no way you could have known I was a pilot unless I said so...

I currently fly a Cessna 414
 
I think we may have stumbled into something here.

What if the Constitution's registry number is actually in the 16xx range? Like NCC-1650? That would easily account for all those other alleged Constitution class ships with registry numbers in that range, with Enterprise just being built later in the production run than we'd been led to believe.

Personally, I have no problem discounting Jefferies' notion about the registry number, just as he didn't appear to have any problem with the idea being ignored. His idea works fine for a model number of a fighter plane (P-51D) or a machine gun (M-60), but for the equivelent of a craft's tail number, identifying a specific starship, it doesn't work at all, and I'd be willing to bet he realized that, once he thought about it for a bit, and so never pushed the idea. And besides, it was after-the-fact rationalization for coming up with NCC-1701 in the first place, which, again, was done purely for visual and artistic reasons, not some preconceived notions about starship registration practices.

Besides, the Writer's Guide states that the Enterprise is a Mk IX starship, so make of that what you will.
 
Playing the game, going with Matt Jeffries original hull designation scheme, with some modifications...

1.) NCC being changed to Naval Construction Contract as F.J. Schnaubelt proposed as NC isn't used anymore since the early 1950's for aircraft designation and is invalid.

2.) The first vessel in the class gets a -00 registry.

3.) The 1701 being used as a tail-number with a more formal designation like Naval Construction Contract 17-00, which allows provision for more than 100 vessels in the class built for example 17-99 (1799) and 17-100 (on the hull as 17100). As I said this isn't much different than 62-0001 being the formal designation for the first XB-70, but the tail number being 20001.


What classes would fit into these numbers?

Naval Construction Contract 01-00 / NCC-100 = Daedalus-Class (NCC-176 was the USS Horizon)
Naval Construction Contract 02-00 / NCC-200 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 03-00 / NCC-300 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 04-00 / NCC-400 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 05-00 / NCC-500 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 06-00 / NCC-600 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 07-00 / NCC-700 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 08-00 / NCC-800 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 09-00 / NCC-900 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 10-00 / NCC-1000 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 11-00 / NCC-1100 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 12-00 / NCC-1200 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 13-00 / NCC-1300 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 14-00 / NCC-1400 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 15-00 / NCC-1500 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 16-00 / NCC-1600 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 17-00 / NCC-1700 = Constitution Class
Naval Construction Contract 18-00 / NCC-1800 = Miranda/Avenger-Class (USS Reliant)


- The Daedalus was designed in 2156
- The Federation was established in 2161
- The Constitution class was designed in 2243 or 2245

So basically this designation system would have to cover 87 or 89 years of ships, with 17 distinct classes developed over that time period. That comes out to on average one class of ship every 5 years. The Daedalus was around awhile, so it's possible that years went by then a bunch of different ships were developed, one or two created here and there, then time went by and a few more were developed.


CuttingEdge100
 
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Captain Robert April,

Well, they to the best of my knowledge throughout all of TOS never officially called the Enterprise a Cruiser or any designation like that.

Other than calling it a Star Ship. One could claim that "Starship" is a term used like "Warship" in modern day which denotes a Cruiser sized armed vessel or larger...

But that doesn't seem to work too well as every ship eventually gets to be called a Starship
 
What if all registry number follow no singular logical explanation whatsoever. You wouldn't want your enemy knowing exactly how many ships you've got, after all. Just make a number up, works for me. Like NCC-9118585, or NCC-12. Perhaps some ships have the same registry number or even the same name, further confusing things for any possible enemies.
 
DiSiLLUSion,

Well, they could just create a phony designation and transponder registration to fool the enemy until the ship appears on the scene...

Once they can spot it on their scanners and such, they'd know. The jig's up...
 
DiSiLLUSion,

Well, they could just create a phony designation and transponder registration to fool the enemy until the ship appears on the scene...

Once they can spot it on their scanners and such, they'd know. The jig's up...
Well, I meant not only the IFF and such, but the actual designation. Have it printed on the hull. Enemies can differentiate between minute differences ships accumulate over time, sure, but make some differences intentional and their records will soon grow to the size of Mars.
 
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