Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

[throwback]

Helyme was attacked by the Reapers 300,000 years ago, long before there was a Prothean Empire. The destruction of that planet's ecosystem occurred then.

The Reapers were aware of Earth 50,000 years ago, but they chose to spare this planet for the next wave of destruction.

A major problem with the ending is that it contradicts, and even ignores, the canonical lore. One possibility I see mention is that the stranded races would be able to navigate to their homeworlds. Here is what the Codex says about navigation in the galaxy:

Even mass-effect-FTL drive is slow relative to the volume of the galaxy. Empty space and systems without suitable drive discharge sites are barriers to exploration. Only the mass relays allow ships to jump hundreds of light-years in an instant, the key to expanding across an otherwise impassable galaxy. (Citadel Space)

The Codex, also, states that only 1% of the stars in the galaxy have been explored. The Migrant Fleet used the Mass Relays, like every other species, to get to their destinations.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

And the ending contradicted the canon.

The canon states clearly:
1.) the Reapers destroy all complex life forms on a planetary surface - the loss of respiring animals leads to massive firestorms that destroy much of the remaining floral and fauna (ex. Helyme, Ilos)
2.) the destruction of so many ships in orbit would result in eezo cores crashing into the planetary surface, resulting in mass extinctions (ex. Eingana)
3.) the radiation emitted by the destruction of a mass relay would irradiate the planets in a system (ex. codex Desperate Measures)

Considering that all three events happen in the Sol System, the planet Earth is a post-garden world, and is no longer capable of supporting life.

Before the game was released, I was worried. The debacle over the novel Deception I felt may be a portent of what was to come. I thought then that the people responsible for this series weren't as emotionally invested in their product as the fans, and were ready to move onto other projects. I hate being right.

Well obviously they don't destroy *all* complex life otherwise humans wouldn't still be around.

I'm pretty sure Sovereign covered that with his "at their apex" i.e. most advanced which implies they leave the not advanced species alone so they can kill them when they are advanced enough.

 

[Darth_Daver]

Girlfriend just finished the game, now I don't even want to finish mine. Horrible horrible ending.

As for the divergent choices promised?

She made this comic after playing ME2. This applies to ME3 1000x.

 

[Deks]

I'm pretty sure Sovereign covered that with his "at their apex" i.e. most advanced which implies they leave the not advanced species alone so they can kill them when they are advanced enough.

Indeed... however, it could also imply that an organic civilization needs to be a space-faring one - meaning that modern day real life humanity (or an alien culture on a same tech level) might be spared (if the extinction cycle happens now), though, that would give us 50 000 years of peace and quiet to advance to the point where the Reapers would not be a threat if we studied the mass relays technology for all that time (given that it's the very core of Reaper technology).
It's possible that Reapers also destroy pre-space faring civilizations on the verge of going to space for this very reason.
If they are close to a breaking point of going into space, 50 000 years being exposed to mass effect technology could produce serious technological advancement that would probably put even the Protheans to shame.

It seems to me that the Protheans were the only (mentioned) space-faring organic race that were unchallenged for longest periods of time... though the Turians seem to mention 15 000 years of civilization (are we talking in total or from the point of becoming industrial and/or space-faring?).
This also begs the question... just how far into a cycle does it take for a culture to usually become space-faring?

It seems to me that most are only a few thousand years in space before the Reapers arrive (probably well under 10 000)- and humanity were there for what... less than 100 years until the Reapers came (although, the Protheans delayed the extinction terminus sometime prior to ME1 - we don't know how long Sovereign was plotting his scheme until he found/indoctrinated Saren and attacked Eden Prime - though ME1 Vigil seems to imply that the signal was corrupted some time ago - could be that the Reaper invasion was scheduled during humanity's pre-space-travel point in time).

The Asari have been in space for less than 4000 years if I'm not mistaken before the Reapers came, and they were apparently the first (followed by the Turians).

The Protheans could have also been on the galactic stage for less than 10 000 years or close to that number before the Reapers came.

 

[Reverend]

So yes, I want the "Hollywood hammy ending", but I also want the "oh shit, everyone's dead ending", the "Reapers went away but will be back for the next cycle" ending, the "Reapers are dead, but so is Earth" ending, etc. etc. etc.

There is a "Reapers are dead, but so is Earth" ending - you get it by not having enough points.

I think what I meant was an ending where you willingly sacrifice Earth to destroy the reapers. Not one where Earth gets burnt to a cinder because you didn't have enough competent engineers building the crucible.

Actually, that's another thing they could have done much better. Instead of having one big "pot" for all your assets, wouldn't it have made more sense to divide them up based on which type of assets you have? Like for instance, if the crucible project didn't get above a certain number of resources then it overloads and destroys the citadel after a successful firing. If you didn't have enough fleet or infantry resources then things onfold differently again. I mean at least then the ending would have had *some* relationship to WHAT you've done rather than how MUCH you've done.

And the ending contradicted the canon.

The canon states clearly:
1.) the Reapers destroy all complex life forms on a planetary surface - the loss of respiring animals leads to massive firestorms that destroy much of the remaining floral and fauna (ex. Helyme, Ilos)
2.) the destruction of so many ships in orbit would result in eezo cores crashing into the planetary surface, resulting in mass extinctions (ex. Eingana)
3.) the radiation emitted by the destruction of a mass relay would irradiate the planets in a system (ex. codex Desperate Measures)

Considering that all three events happen in the Sol System, the planet Earth is a post-garden world, and is no longer capable of supporting life.

Before the game was released, I was worried. The debacle over the novel Deception I felt may be a portent of what was to come. I thought then that the people responsible for this series weren't as emotionally invested in their product as the fans, and were ready to move onto other projects. I hate being right.

Well obviously they don't destroy *all* complex life otherwise humans wouldn't still be around.

I'm pretty sure Sovereign covered that with his "at their apex" i.e. most advanced which implies they leave the not advanced species alone so they can kill them when they are advanced enough.

Yeah, exactly. Even on the planets they do harvest they're not 100% thorough. The Thorian is supposed to have survived several cycles unharmed. The idea that they wipe out "all organic life" is a misconception held by certain characters within the game and is corrected on several occasions.

It seems to me that the Protheans were the only (mentioned) space-faring organic race that were unchallenged for longest periods of time... though the Turians seem to mention 15 000 years of civilization (are we talking in total or from the point of becoming industrial and/or space-faring?).
This also begs the question... just how far into a cycle does it take for a culture to usually become space-faring?

You know I have wondered about this. The way I see it, it's possible the current cycle was supposed to commence as early as 2000 years ago. I mean why would the reapers set them loose against the galaxy unless it was an attempt by Nazarra to gain access to the Citadel when it realised the Keepers weren't responding anymore.

It seems to me that most are only a few thousand years in space before the Reapers arrive (probably well under 10 000)- and humanity were there for what... less than 100 years until the Reapers came (although, the Protheans delayed the extinction terminus sometime prior to ME1 - we don't know how long Sovereign was plotting his scheme until he found/indoctrinated Saren and attacked Eden Prime - though ME1 Vigil seems to imply that the signal was corrupted some time ago - could be that the Reaper invasion was scheduled during humanity's pre-space-travel point in time).

The Asari have been in space for less than 4000 years if I'm not mistaken before the Reapers came, and they were apparently the first (followed by the Turians).

I'm pretty sure the line about Turian civilization means just that; civilization. Human civilization for example is usually reckoned to have begun around 3000 B.C. with the start of the bronze age, so as a species we've had civilization from round about five thousand years.

As for the other point, I think the dominant race of two cycles before the Protheans (I forget their name) were a space faring race for something like 27,000 years. We know this because there's mention of them in conflict with another race over colony rights 127,000 years ago, which would put them smack in the middle of their cycle.

 

[throwback]

The races were the the thoi'han and the inusannon.

 

[Deks]

Indeed.
Not all organic life is wiped out.
As evidenced by the game itself, less advanced/primitive civilizations were spared... otherwise, 50 000 years would probably not be enough time for complex life to evolve from simpler organisms, let alone advance to the point where they become space-faring - then again, we are basing this from our own observations.
Other parts of the galaxy or the universe itself might have right conditions that significantly accelerate evolutionary processes.
But ultimately, we know the Reapers leave one of them behind to assess the state of the galaxy - which is probably enough time to scour the entire Galaxy and see which races are advanced (or meet the Reaper criteria), and which aren't.

I would surmise that an organic civilization could withstand the Reapers and defeat them via conventional means if they made sufficient technological advancements (especially in a direction that went outside of Mass Effect basis and using it only as reference).

The Protheans were mentioned to be a bit more 'adept' at advancing despite being on a galactic stage for say close to 10 000 years.
They found out about the Reapers some time before the invasion happened it would seem, but one of the reasons they failed was arrogance, single Empire with same approach to fighting and a lack of time (they were at the cusp of unlocking all the 'mysteries' of Mass Effect technology after all - and if they had, perhaps they could have repelled the Reapers).

Now, if a race (or races) realized about the Reapers in say 500 to 1000 years before the cycle reaches it's extinction terminus - gotta say I like the expression - then it's entirely possible it could result in a massive technological advancement that might give the Reapers a run for their money.

I wonder though... would it be enough?
Would they have enough time to devise means of countering mass effect based technologies and variations on the theme that Reapers employ?

 

[Reverend]

^The problem with that theory is that it ignores the reaper vanguard. It would know when a civilization might be approaching "danger zone" and awaken it's brethren early. The 50K year cycle isn't automatic. It can't be, otherwise why leave a vanguard behind at all? Based on what the VI on Thessia said, it appears that the Reapers didn't set the 50K cyclical pattern, they're just as subject to it as everything else.

Indeed, assuming that what we know of previous cycles was consistent, the only cycle that probably *ever* even had a chance was this one. Even the protheans didn't realize that the citadel was a giant mass relay linked directly to dark space and it was their undoing. When they lost the citadel and the relays, their empire was shattered into thousands of isolated star clusters, with only their beacons for communication. It didn't take centuries because they were winning, it took centuries because that's how long it takes to wipe out almost all traces of a galactic civilization. The reapers were thorough and methodical, they had no need to rush.

This time around it was different. They lost the element of surprise so they just came down hard on all the races at once, focusing on Earth as that's where they saw the greatest potential for harvesting new reapers.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I'm standing at the crossroads right now. I don't want any of these endings. This game has been so utterly amazing, and in the space of a single conversation that's been completely lost.

My initial concern was "Are Liara and Tali dead? Did having them in my team (so that I would be better able to ensure their survival) ultimately cause them to be lost?". Then, there was the fantastic sequence with the Illusive Man. And finally, that damn kid. It was actually quite an interesting conversation, up until the choices were laid out. I was expecting the third option to be a simple "take out the Reapers" choice, or for there to be a "go to hell" answer, and kept hoping for that. But no. I get an option that makes no sense at all, and two others I would never pick. I wanted the endings Reverend suggested.

Now what? I honestly don't want to finish this wonderful game like this.

 

[ATimson]

My initial concern was "Are Liara and Tali dead? Did having them in my team (so that I would be better able to ensure their survival) ultimately cause them to be lost?".

I think the answer to that is "it should have caused them to be lost, but if you pick an ending they'll probably show up in the Normandy crash cutscene anyways".

 

[TheGodBen]

I was expecting the third option to be a simple "take out the Reapers" choice, or for there to be a "go to hell" answer, and kept hoping for that. But no. I get an option that makes no sense at all, and two others I would never pick. I wanted the endings Reverend suggested.

Now what? I honestly don't want to finish this wonderful game like this.

I chose to destroy the Reapers because it was the closest thing available to telling the catalyst to screw itself. Controlling the Reapers just seemed too dangerous and too akin to slavery for my taste. Synthesis seemed like the worst choice of all, partly because it was incredibly hokey (Seriously, robo DNA? We've descended to the level of a Futurama gag?) and partly because it meant violating the rights of every sentient being in the galaxy by altering them at a fundamental level. Besides, I refuse to be responsible for the creation of the Borg. By that point in my game, the Geth were already extinct so EDI was the only other synthetic I knew about, and I knew she was willing to sacrifice herself to stop the Reapers, so that's the option I chose. It's not the option I wanted, but it was all that was available.

 

[Deks]

^The problem with that theory is that it ignores the reaper vanguard. It would know when a civilization might be approaching "danger zone" and awaken it's brethren early. The 50K year cycle isn't automatic. It can't be, otherwise why leave a vanguard behind at all? Based on what the VI on Thessia said, it appears that the Reapers didn't set the 50K cyclical pattern, they're just as subject to it as everything else.

Indeed, assuming that what we know of previous cycles was consistent, the only cycle that probably *ever* even had a chance was this one. Even the protheans didn't realize that the citadel was a giant mass relay linked directly to dark space and it was their undoing. When they lost the citadel and the relays, their empire was shattered into thousands of isolated star clusters, with only their beacons for communication. It didn't take centuries because they were winning, it took centuries because that's how long it takes to wipe out almost all traces of a galactic civilization. The reapers were thorough and methodical, they had no need to rush.

This time around it was different. They lost the element of surprise so they just came down hard on all the races at once, focusing on Earth as that's where they saw the greatest potential for harvesting new reapers.

It doesn't really go around the Reaper vanguard. It would have to scour the galaxy to assess what's happening and it mostly hibernates like the rest of his 'brotherhood' only to awaken periodically (we don't know how often that is though could be once every 10 000 years, or more than that... and it has to stay hidden all the time). To that end, if the Reapers were repeating the extinction every 50 000 years, why change direction now?
Remember that the Reapers also underestimate organic civilizations.
The Protheans were on the verge of fully comprehending the mass relays, but, time ran out and the Reaper invasion ensued.

The only reason that THIS cycle ever stood a chance is because the Protheans corrupted the initial signal and current cycle organic races caught up to the overall information about the Reapers (albeit it fell on deaf ears initially) allowing them to delay the invasion for nearly 3 years.

I'm fully aware that the Protheans were not winning but that it took centuries to wipe almost all traces of them because the Reapers were methodical in their approach - that and the Protheans were even more-so widespread than the present galactic cycle races (who implement variety in their tactics, ways of thinking, etc...).
Even the Turians were able to devise a small-scale version of the Reaper main weapon... less potent than the actual version, but probably enough to hurt the Reapers (and that was in what... less than 2 years).

Given more time, it's possible that this galactic cycle could have prepared more.
As it is, post-Prothean races came to the galactic stage late in the cycle (in the final 5000 years) and voila.

 

[MNM]

I actually have no particular problem with the endings per se. I liked the narative and how it came across. The choices on offer didnt bug me, and I have no real problem the mass effect relays being destroyed as a consequence of blowing up the Reapers as I can see how the Reapers had become simply too big a problem to be able to be solved without causing other problems. the aim of the story was to stop the Reapers, and that happened.

No, the only problem I had was that once you make your choice, there is bugger all else in the ending. Give me a proper epilogue that sums up what happened to each character or something along those lines that rounds everything off and I would be happy.

 

[PsychoPere]

Community Manager Jessica Merizan has offered some clarification regarding the ending:

[Joker] didn't go to the relay. But he did pick up the squad when hammer was told to retreat and tried to outrun that weird beam later

I don't think it's very clear how much time passes after you enter the beacon

 

[Reverend]

I actually have no particular problem with the endings per se. I liked the narative and how it came across. The choices on offer didnt bug me, and I have no real problem the mass effect relays being destroyed as a consequence of blowing up the Reapers as I can see how the Reapers had become simply too big a problem to be able to be solved without causing other problems. the aim of the story was to stop the Reapers, and that happened.

No, the only problem I had was that once you make your choice, there is bugger all else in the ending. Give me a proper epilogue that sums up what happened to each character or something along those lines that rounds everything off and I would be happy.

Instead of doing a Dragon Age: Origins style epilogue, (which was just a series of text screens) what I thought would have been nice would be a post story montage, or series of still images specific to each player's choices during the credits. I know several films have done this but for the life of me I can't name a good example right now, but the end of BG&E has something similar.

 

[eastman23]

Well, that was... somewhat disappointing.

I'm not really all that upset (at least not as much as others apparently are) with how the ending went down. I just don't get like that over things like this. Overall, everything up to the 3 choices was okay. Right there, it fell down. No matter what you chose, the galaxy is left is a crappy state without the mass relays. And the Normandy scene at the end made very little sense. The last time I checked, Liara was at the command post, and Javik was with me at the run to the beam.

I think grandpa (the guy at the end telling stories) had a faulty memory.

For the record, I went with the control Reapers option. It seemed to be on the "paragon" side of the 3 choices and I couldn't destroy all synthetic life after all I went through with the quarians and geth. I didn't go with the synthesis option because it seemed like too much of a change. I wanted to try and keep the status quo of the galaxy as much as possible, the mass relay network aside.

If Bioware is planning a "real" ending DLC, it damn well better be free, given what I see with all the complaints. Though I am well aware of the internet's tendency to amplify negativity.

 

[stonester1]

I just finished my second run through with my other Shep (will do a third with a FemShep at some point). I'm down with ambiguous, artsy endings in my science fiction (2001, Solaris, BSG, Lost), but the way it was done here, with the big deal about how your choices mattered. Yet, no matter what, you are shoehorned into...that.

These games are classics in science fiction storytelling. But I'm sticking with my Star Wars analogy in the place the games and SW OT relate to each other.

 

[TheGodBen]

If Bioware is planning a "real" ending DLC, it damn well better be free, given what I see with all the complaints. Though I am well aware of the internet's tendency to amplify negativity.

I'd love a free DLC that fixed the ending, but we have to be realistic. Any free ending would be very limited, probably just an extended cutscene that explains how the Normandy got where it was and a few minutes afterwards showing us what happened to the characters.

That's not what most of us want. We want for the final mission to be closer to ME2's suicide mission, where the preparation you undertook and decisions you made had an impact on how the mission played out. We want to see what impact saving the Rachni had, we want to see the allied Quarian and Geth fleets landing a major blow against a Reaper ship, we want to make choices that could lead to the deaths of beloved characters. And we want divergent endings based on the choices made across all three games, ranging from super-happy to super-sad, not just three different coloured explosions.

Such an intricate piece of DLC would take a lot of time and money to develop, it would be unimaginable that they would release it for free. So if the choice is between some half-assed free DLC to fix the already half-assed ending, or paying a little more to get a satisfying conclusion to a beloved trilogy, I would reluctantly agree to the latter. I'm worried about the precedent that would set, and I would be far more wary about purchasing Bioware games in the future, but that's where I stand.

 

[ATimson]

I'm worried about the precedent that would set, and I would be far more wary about purchasing Bioware games in the future, but that's where I stand.

I don't know if "wary" is the right term for me. As long as Casey Hudson and Mac Walters keep their mitts off, I'm going to buy Dragon Age III. But I refuse to partake in any future project those two were responsible for.

 

[FPAlpha]

If Bioware is planning a "real" ending DLC, it damn well better be free, given what I see with all the complaints. Though I am well aware of the internet's tendency to amplify negativity.

I'd love a free DLC that fixed the ending, but we have to be realistic. Any free ending would be very limited, probably just an extended cutscene that explains how the Normandy got where it was and a few minutes afterwards showing us what happened to the characters.

That's not what most of us want. We want for the final mission to be closer to ME2's suicide mission, where the preparation you undertook and decisions you made had an impact on how the mission played out. We want to see what impact saving the Rachni had, we want to see the allied Quarian and Geth fleets landing a major blow against a Reaper ship, we want to make choices that could lead to the deaths of beloved characters. And we want divergent endings based on the choices made across all three games, ranging from super-happy to super-sad, not just three different coloured explosions.

Such an intricate piece of DLC would take a lot of time and money to develop, it would be unimaginable that they would release it for free. So if the choice is between some half-assed free DLC to fix the already half-assed ending, or paying a little more to get a satisfying conclusion to a beloved trilogy, I would reluctantly agree to the latter. I'm worried about the precedent that would set, and I would be far more wary about purchasing Bioware games in the future, but that's where I stand.

The problem i have with your post is that you apparently want everything displayed and that's just unrealistic. Mass Effect 3 is not a life simulation or a Trek style holodeck where a near AI is crafting the story within the constraints in real time and has to prepare for every eventuality and decision you get in your mind. Bioware has to make a choice while designing the game as much as a TV producer has to make a choice what to show to tell his story in the time allotted to him for an episode.

It's impossible to show everything and satisfy everybody.. some may not like that decisions in the game such as saving the new Rachni queen meaning in the end simply an increased number in your War Assets menue and maybe an entry besides it when you have struggled with the moral decision and have fought like hell against the hordes. It's a design choice by Bioware but if they wanted to include every little detail with extensive dialogue and cutscenes ME3 would be the new Duke Nukem and wouldn't be finished this decade probably.

I understand the critcism towards the ending and to a degree i agree with the feelings and thoughts of the fandom. However i had closure to the story of Mass Effect and that's all i ask. It was a bittersweet closure not everybody was shiny and happy but it fit the story in general and a typical hollywood ending with everybody dancing in the streets to an upbeat tune would have left me pissed off to no end. We will never know the real truth behind the production and if there indeed were last minute changes because of leaks or EA pressure to get it done but it would explain so many things.. no one will however confirm it officially since it would be admitting in public that they fucked up but if there is a DLC with different endings they will spin it somehow and present it as a gift for the fans for an extended experience or somesuch.. as if anyone would be fooled by it.