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Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

Then, in Priority: Thessia, there is a sudden shift in my perception of the Reapers. In this mission, I learned that the Reapers are controlled by an outside influence (the Catalyst). I feel that from this point on the game begins to lose its focus and coherence.
I dunno. I don't think it lost focus and coherence until the Catalyst started talking.

No, I think Throwback is right. The big issue is that in Mass Effect 1&2, the Reapers were portrayed as being creatures who were in complete and total charge of what they were doing. If the Catalyst was the true reason why the Reapers keep returning, this leaves two big plot holes.

1. Why was the Catalyst, an entity that resides on the Citadel, unable to convert the Citadel into a Mass Relay? This was a very big plot point in the Reapers' plan to eradicate galactic civilization in the first Mass Effect game, and it was foiled by simply changing the Keeper's way of receiving signals. The Catalyst can create Synthetics, Mass Relays, and a bunch of other crap, but he can't even make the Citadel do what it was designed to do.

2. The obvious, Harbinger. Listen to what he says in Mass Effect 2, and in the DLC The Arrival. There is absolutely NOTHING in his character that hints at having a purpose other than eradicating all advanced forms of life in the galaxy. It's only when we're introduced to the idea of an unknown source that influences the Reapers on Thessia does the Reaper story come to a complete and utter stop. How else can you explain that when you've established such an ominous and dangerous foe like Harbinger? The confrontation between him and Shepard was one of the most anticipated moments in the entire game, and when the two finally meet in the battle field face to face, neither of them acknowledge each other. Harbinger doesn't even say a single word of dialogue in the game. This reeks of last minute changes from having the Reapers be the problem to the Catalyst being the problem.
 
I'm partway through my second playthough, this time with my renageade maleshep and I just completed the asari monastery mission. I have to say I'm a little disappointed that Morinth doesn't show up at all. She's mentioned in one of the datapad text dumps and after the mission you can read the unread emails she sent to her sisters on Liara's terminal, but that's all. Seemed to me like a no-brainer for her to have a part in that mission, given Samara's role if you chose her instead. I looked it up on the wiki and the closest she comes to appearing is as a nondescript banshee in the London mission. So yeah, disappointing.

Also noticed something that appears the blow a very large hole in the 'indoctrinated Shepard' theory. A picture of that boy you see die in the beginning can be seen on the memorial wall on the citadel, with the words lLast seen on Earth" printed on it...unless of course they expect us to believe Shep hallucinated the photo too.
 
Also noticed something that appears the blow a very large hole in the 'indoctrinated Shepard' theory. A picture of that boy you see die in the beginning can be seen on the memorial wall on the citadel, with the words lLast seen on Earth" printed on it...unless of course they expect us to believe Shep hallucinated the photo too.
The theory has her being indoctrinated throughout the entire game? I thought it was only supposed to be for the finale - after the fade in, when you lose your HUD & permanently have the "hurt aura" on the screen.
 
The indoctrination theory can still be true if the boy is real, it just means that the Reapers are using a real person and real event to get under Shepard's skin. After all, if the catalyst knows about the boy and can take his form, surely the Reapers can too. I'm near the end of my second playthrough, and the one thing that strikes me about the indoctrination theory is all those oily shadows and whispers in Shepard's dreams. It fits so perfectly with the way the Rachni queen described it, it's unfortunate that Bioware apparently didn't have the artistic vision to do it intentionally.

The theory has her being indoctrinated throughout the entire game? I thought it was only supposed to be for the finale - after the fade in, when you lose your HUD & permanently have the "hurt aura" on the screen.
The theory is that Shepard was slowly succumbing to indoctrination throughout the game, as evidenced by the dreams. Indoctrination only fully takes over after being hit by Harbinger's beam.


Interestingly, the ANN twitter feed posted news last night for the first time in over two weeks, announcing that the Reapers have started attacking Asari space. Extrapolating from that timeline, the battle for Earth would be due to take place in a week or two. It's possible that that will coincide with a DLC announcement, or news on whatever revisions they're planning for the ending.
 
I didn't say it disproves the theory, just that it blows a hole in it. The theory states that waking hallucinations are always the first symptom of indoctrination, even slow indoctrination. So if the kid was real, then Shep wasn't hallucinating.

Anyway, yeah I noticed the in game ANN stuff ceased rather suddenly. Wonder if they're just not as committed to keeping it up like they did with the Daily Cerberus News, or if all the recent jiggery pokery has them switching gears behind the scenes.

I also note that Hudson and Walters have both gone quiet on their twitter accounts. Gamble is still chatting away though. Could be they're just taking a break from work in general, are busy working on the next planned DLC (ending related or otherwise) or just don't want to engage with the fans right now.

The indoctrination theory can still be true if the boy is real, it just means that the Reapers are using a real person and real event to get under Shepard's skin. After all, if the catalyst knows about the boy and can take his form, surely the Reapers can too. I'm near the end of my second playthrough, and the one thing that strikes me about the indoctrination theory is all those oily shadows and whispers in Shepard's dreams. It fits so perfectly with the way the Rachni queen described it, it's unfortunate that Bioware apparently didn't have the artistic vision to do it intentionally.

Funny you mention the dreams since I noticed that the one I had after Tuchanka was different than on my first playthrough. This time I thought there were a lot more shadows and I could defiantly hear both Wrex and Kaiden's voices (both of whom are dead for this Shep.)

I'm pretty sure the dreams have nothing to do with indoctrination but rather a reflection of Shepard's state of mind. The more people who are killed (especially main characters), the darker, noisier and more crowded the dreams get. The boy is just a symbol of those left behind on Earth. I mean it's pretty straightforward stuff, you don't need a degree in psychology to get what's going on.

So yeah, as neat as it might first appear, I really don't buy into the indoctrination theory. At least as far as the authors' intent goes. If that's what they really intended then they did a poor job of executing it.

[Edit] Almost forgot; I posted this elsewhere already, but here's my (very brief) take on a ME3 ending rewrite. :p

LITTLE BOY: Did all that all really happen?
OLD MAN: Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time. It all happened so very long ago.
LB: Which details?
OM: What? Oh you know, minor things.
LB: Like?
OM: Well...The Shepard's gender, what he or she looked or sounded like, place of birth, who lived or died, who he or she was screwing...and what happened on the citadel at the end...nobody saw that. They were too busy running away.
LB: So you just made it up?
OM: Mostly.
LB: That's messed up
 
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Here are three excellent videos on Mass Effect 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUqAhKW7498&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGZJC-nY4TA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVU5BHJYgGM

I agree with many of his views on Mass Effect 3. Like him, I am playing the game again, and I am not sure if I will replay the game for a third time. The flaws in the game are becoming more glaring. I mentioned one flaw previously where I learned that the Reapers were not acting of their own accord, but were controlled by an outside influence. This game is not as polished as the second game, or even the first game.

I, also, feel this game penalizes the player unfairly if he or she chose the wrong game system or chose not to play multiplayer. Players who have a Play Station can not play the first game, so they lose points in a game where points are critical in deciding the number of choices that are available at the ending.
 
The game's official Twitter feed has unambiguously stated that the DLC to be announced in April will not change the endings:
We are releasing additional content, not changing what exists!
Also, this DLC is apparently not a response to the controversy:
We never said we were changing it :) We have ALWAYS had big plans for ME3. It isn't a response-It's been in the works

Edited to add: A couple more tweets that I thought were worth including:
There has always been a plan for DLC and for future games in the ME universe.

It is unfortunate that fans felt there was no ending, but ME3 was never going to be the last of the ME universe.
 
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You know, I was going to say this is just going to cause confusion, but I think they're right. IIRC they've only said that they're listening to feedback and intend to address the fans' reaction to the ending. People just assumed that means a "New Ending DLC."

It's pretty clear they're being intentionally cryptic to keep fans engaged, though it's getting dangerously close to just jerking people around. Still...the paranoid cynic in me can't help but wonder if they've consulted with one of those viral marketing experts and decided to engineer the whole thing as a way of staying in the gaming news.

Obviously they're not going to abort whatever DLC they already had planned, so whatever they release first, it won't be ending related. More likely it'll be either another new companion (ala 'Stolen Memories') or the conspicuous-by-it's-absence-in-the-main-game " DLC (ala 'Lair of the Shadow Broker'), aka "Retake Omega."

I doubt they'll fiddle about with gameplay-mechanics-experiments-disguised-as-new-content DLCs like 'Firewalker' or 'Overlord'.
 
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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the April announcement is two-pronged: announcing a specific DLC that had already been in the works (i.e., "Retake Omega"), plus their intention to develop additional content to clarify the endings that would, of course, be released at a later date than the first set of DLC.
 
So yeah, as neat as it might first appear, I really don't buy into the indoctrination theory. At least as far as the authors' intent goes. If that's what they really intended then they did a poor job of executing it.
The indoctrination theory is popular because it erases that final section of the game, and people are willing to forgive any plot holes in it out of a desperate desire to undo the ending. It appealed to me a lot when I finished the game, but when Casey Hudson came out with his statement and it was clear that the ending was supposed to be taken at face value, I accepted that it wasn't to be. I can understand why the holdouts still cling to it, but it's kinda sad to see so many people unwilling to accept that Bioware screwed up the endings.


I finished the game for the second time tonight, and it was actually worse this time. The final mission wasn't as dynamic as I would have hoped, but everything up until that white elevator ride was fine. After that... by the goddess, how could they have been so blind to just how shit it was? :(
 
I finished the game for the second time tonight, and it was actually worse this time. The final mission wasn't as dynamic as I would have hoped, but everything up until that white elevator ride was fine. After that... by the goddess, how could they have been so blind to just how shit it was? :(
That's a good question. Let's speculate.
 
Well, while watching the final cutscene I spent my time trying to figure out what type of drug they were on when they wrote it. In the end I decided it was probably plain old alcohol because it's sloppy, and has the feeling of something that seemed like a brilliant idea at the time. :shrug:
 
So yeah, as neat as it might first appear, I really don't buy into the indoctrination theory. At least as far as the authors' intent goes. If that's what they really intended then they did a poor job of executing it.
The indoctrination theory is popular because it erases that final section of the game, and people are willing to forgive any plot holes in it out of a desperate desire to undo the ending. It appealed to me a lot when I finished the game, but when Casey Hudson came out with his statement and it was clear that the ending was supposed to be taken at face value, I accepted that it wasn't to be. I can understand why the holdouts still cling to it, but it's kinda sad to see so many people unwilling to accept that Bioware screwed up the endings.


I finished the game for the second time tonight, and it was actually worse this time. The final mission wasn't as dynamic as I would have hoped, but everything up until that white elevator ride was fine. After that... by the goddess, how could they have been so blind to just how shit it was? :(

Oh I can totally understand the appeal of that theory, but it's just a comforting lie. The most likely explanation is still the simplest.

The way I see it, at a certain point in development, they realised they weren't going to have enough time to do everything they wanted and were forced to cut back on content. I'm guessing this was about a year ago, around the same time the release date was pushed back. Naturally they had to prioritise what was most important, balanced against what work had already been done.

I'm guessing that the Prothean teamate was the first thing to go. In fact, I'd be willing to bet the original idea was to find him at the Mars dig site (there's even content still in the game that alludes to a secret Prothean facility hidden beneath the archives.) I don't know if the Aria/Omega plot was in the main game at some point or if they intentionally saved that for DLC from the get-go. Either way, after that, the main missions got priority while side missions got cut back, dropped or simplified to scan and fetch quests. then the beta leak hits are the ending which by this point is already half done is all over the net forcing them into a last minute scramble to change the ending, leaving no time for the usual peer review and multiple drafts that would normally be par for the course.

Serously, as good as the game is, look closely and the signs of a production under a the gun are all over the place. From the occasionally sloppy animations, to inexplicably useless journal and the hastily put together N7 missions. Even the crew interactions feel thin with minimal animations and only sporadic conversation trees.

I don't know if at some point they planned to "enhance" the rushed ending with new material, knowing that the plot holes will eventually be filled in, that they just figured "what the hell, only the die hard fans will even get to the end anyway" or if they genuinely thought that mess would pass muster.

This is of course 100% opinion based speculation on my part and could be *way* off the mark, but that's how I see things at the moment.

Still, to this day the biggest mystery for me remains "what the hell was the point of Diana Allers?" A character with no dicernable traits, personality, or backstory worth a fart. Your interactions with her are so widely spaced that there's no way for a player to develop any kind of attachment to her and the decision to cast as non-actor/internet "journalist" in the role is utterly baffling. I swear they must have spent more time on her in-game model than on any other facet of her involvement. Seriously, if they wanted embedded reporter then why not use Emily Wong or even al-Jilani? Even then, what's the point of having side a character if we don't get to see her reports playing when we visit the Citadel? Like everything else that should have meant something, all we get is a few meaningless points in the war assets bucket of futility.
 
Oh I can totally understand the appeal of that theory, but it's just a comforting lie. The most likely explanation is still the simplest.
That's what I thought, but then I realised something: After taking on Cerberus HQ, your last act on the galaxy map is to go go right, or east, to the mass relay in the Pax system. Pax + east = PAX East! Bioware are going to be at PAX East in April. That's where they're going to reveal the free ending DLC that proves the indoctrination theory correct! It's so obvious! :shifty:
 
I finished the game for the second time tonight, and it was actually worse this time. The final mission wasn't as dynamic as I would have hoped, but everything up until that white elevator ride was fine. After that... by the goddess, how could they have been so blind to just how shit it was? :(

THIS!
 
But... but... SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE! How could that not be a good thing?

By throwing your trilogy for a complete loop in the last ten minutes of the third installment, upending what you thought you knew and presenting entirely new questions to supplement the ones that you still haven't answered, and leaving your fans completely baffled.

Sigh. It had to be a time issue. I can't see any real "artistic" argument for slamming the door on providing any sense of completeness or closure in such a manner.
 
then the beta leak hits are the ending which by this point is already half done is all over the net forcing them into a last minute scramble to change the ending, leaving no time for the usual peer review and multiple drafts that would normally be par for the course.
My understanding - which is hampered by my inability to find the beta materials after deliberately ignoring them at the time - is that they actually didn't change anything and it's been like this since last November.

Still, to this day the biggest mystery for me remains "what the hell was the point of Diana Allers?"
Human love interest who doesn't violate the military's rules on fraternization.
 
then the beta leak hits are the ending which by this point is already half done is all over the net forcing them into a last minute scramble to change the ending, leaving no time for the usual peer review and multiple drafts that would normally be par for the course.
My understanding - which is hampered by my inability to find the beta materials after deliberately ignoring them at the time - is that they actually didn't change anything and it's been like this since last November.
I am similarly hampered. Ironic, no?
Apparently though the ending did change at some point as it was originally to do with the dark energy build up. When that was exactly I'm not certain.
Still, to this day the biggest mystery for me remains "what the hell was the point of Diana Allers?"
Human love interest who doesn't violate the military's rules on fraternization.

Well then they did a half arsed job of executing it and it still doesn't explain why they didn't use one of the two female reporters they already had. How can Shepard romance someone she barely interacts with?

Making Traynor a non-squadmate love interest made perfect sense as you're far more likely to interact with her on a regular basis. With Allers you don't even get the opportunity to talk to her in any substantial way. She spends most of the game just standing around in the cargo bay like a lemon.

Actually, that's some pretty good evidence that her character was an 11th hour addition. Think about it, does any other character ever refer to her? She's never seen out of the cargo bay, never talks to anyone save Shepard and whoever's voice that it coming from her camera. Compare that to how well Javik is integrated and it becomes very telling.
 
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Actually, that's some pretty good evidence that her character was an 11th hour addition. Think about it, does any other character ever refer to her? She's never seen out of the cargo bay, never talks to anyone save Shepard and whoever's voice that it coming from her camera. Compare that to how well Javik is integrated and it becomes very telling.
I heard her talking over the intercom with Traynor, and possibly others that I'm forgetting. But you're right, she is a bit... isolated.
 
But... but... SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE! How could that not be a good thing?
That note shows how badly they understood their audience. When I played the original Mass Effect, one of the things that impressed me was how detailed it was, all the alien races were fleshed out and there was a strong sense of history from the universe. You could barely walk down a corridor without some new codex entry being unlocked, and while I only read a few pages of it every now and then, I always appreciated that all that detail was there. To go from such unprecedented detail to almost no detail at all, how could they possibly think that the fans would be okay with that?
 
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