Masks... why all the hate?

[carlmarx]

I have two big problems with Masks:

1. Crusher says that the probe can use their DNA to create what it wants. Sooooo, how come we dont see any people turning into things? No one even seems worried about that possibility in the slightest despite them specifically saying their DNA could be used for transformation by the probe. That just seemed really poorly thought out.
Plus, they mustve gotten pretty lucky with what the probe transformed. Worf says at one point that within two hours, there'll be nothing left of the ship. I know that there were systems breaking down, but with only 2 hours left, they seem to be in pretty good shape. I didnt buy it one bit.

2. So was Masaka actually a myth or not??? Everyone here seems to think it is, but then whose personalities was Data receiving? If masaka was a myth, how could she "send away" or kill the people that Data was embodying? Were they mythical figures too? So he was possessed by "thousands" of fairy-tale characters? Again, dont buy it.

To me, in the end, Masks is the perfect example of the writers getting so caught up in trying to be off-beat, they forget to make the show about anything. Weird and off-beat is great- "Frame of mind", "Projections", etc.- but here, its just a waste. As if we're supposed to be distracted so much by how different it is were not going to notice how lame the plot actually is. Menosky got the "myths/totally different cultures" thing right with Darmok. Here, not so much.

 

[Trekker4747]

I'd rather watch shades of gray.

There's a few aspects about this episode I hate but here are the two bigger ones:

There's only so much I'm willing to "accept" when it comes to the manipulation of energy and matter in Trek. That these alien devices were turning pieces of the ship into stone and removing decks to make two-to-three story high temples strained that suspension beyond the breaking point. It was just too much that an entire section of the ship was made into this massive temple and when everything goes back to normal it simply fades back to a regular corridor.

But that's being a technobabble nitpicker.

The biggest problem I had is that the episode struck me as nothing more than to give Spiner a chance to chew scenery and, frankly, I don't think the man is that great of an actor. He does a good job with Data but only because when he plays Data he's not "trying" to pull anything off but whenever he plays another character he turns the cheese up to 11 and plants himself down for a hardy meal of scenery. It doesn't come across as him playing another person with their own identity and persona it comes across as "Brent Spiner playing generic old man." The acting on Spiner's part, for me, in this episode was just plain painful to watch. It was engrossing, it wasn't interesting it wasn't "Wow! This guy might have a career as an actor when he gets done with TNG!" it was "ugh, who directed him to act like this."

And I feel that way whenever Spiner is 'trying' to act like a different person: Lore, old Dr. Soong, the "whimsical" dream Dr. Soong. The only times when Data acted "out of character" that was somewhat interesting was when he was "possessed" by Ira Graves, being controlled by Lore, and when he was possessed by the aliens in "Power Play." And there were a couple of times as Lore when he was good. But Spiner's best acting came when he wasn't trying. This was not in Masks.

 

[RAMA]

This episode along with Sub Rosa and Shades of Grey are the worse TNG episodes for me. I just didn't understand why such a powerful people would make a probe thing that will transform ships so it can play out a myth to people who might die from it. To me, that is just plain stupid and doesn't make any sense. Maybe I missed something. Why couldn't these people just have a normal library that people can access and learn the 'normal' way?

I willing to bet they didn't PLAN for the mythical personalities to get free reign. They seem to have accessed the power of the advanced probe to play out their scenerio once again. Regardless of that, concept, the production, FX, and acting would make this episode far above those you mentioned in quality.

Your "normal" way may not be normal for our culture 100 yrs from now, let alone 1000s. People discovered information differently before modern libraries, and the internet, Google, WIkipedia, portable wireless devices have changed that significantly in just a decade. The Enterprise crew had holodecks, why couldn't this civilization have a more expansive virtual construct than this?? I would chalk your final question up to lack of imagination on this point.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Somehow this computer happened to have a compatible system with the Enterprise? Plot device I suppose...
I guess I was multi-tasking too much when I watched this one, but I found it deathly boring. It wasn't a good episode, but I'm not sure I would label it as bad though. But I certainly didn't ever intend to watch it again. But I might, just to get a fresh perspective on such a previously under-thought (and probably rightfully so, though) episode.

Arthur C Clarke my friend...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)I have no difficulty believing an advanced computer/AI driven culture could access a lesser one. If they can't do playback, all they have to do is analyze, create one in a replicator/vacuform machine/what have you, and read it. Any mathematical species can read digital data..I'm sure they are beyond even the fictional positronic and isolinear, duotronic electronics posited by ST.

I have two big problems with Masks:

1. Crusher says that the probe can use their DNA to create what it wants. Sooooo, how come we dont see any people turning into things? No one even seems worried about that possibility in the slightest despite them specifically saying their DNA could be used for transformation by the probe. That just seemed really poorly thought out.
Plus, they mustve gotten pretty lucky with what the probe transformed. Worf says at one point that within two hours, there'll be nothing left of the ship. I know that there were systems breaking down, but with only 2 hours left, they seem to be in pretty good shape. I didnt buy it one bit.

2. So was Masaka actually a myth or not??? Everyone here seems to think it is, but then whose personalities was Data receiving? If masaka was a myth, how could she "send away" or kill the people that Data was embodying? Were they mythical figures too? So he was possessed by "thousands" of fairy-tale characters? Again, dont buy it.

To me, in the end, Masks is the perfect example of the writers getting so caught up in trying to be off-beat, they forget to make the show about anything. Weird and off-beat is great- "Frame of mind", "Projections", etc.- but here, its just a waste. As if we're supposed to be distracted so much by how different it is were not going to notice how lame the plot actually is. Menosky got the "myths/totally different cultures" thing right with Darmok. Here, not so much.

When dealing with unknowns, it common enough to speculate or be vague. Trek fans often latch on to crew speculations as if that's the exact answer (as with your example). Even in TOS, a lot of things were left vague, as mentioned by the Okuda's in their encyclopedias and chronologies...and they had to guess and fill in the blanks a lot. This isn't unusual in SF or other fiction really. In some of my posts, I mention what are MY speculations, which may or may not be true, but we don't really have the answers because the show is not a forum for technical speculations and data retrieval. I did in fact speculate some of the personalities may be based on real people, much like Jesus was a real man and a mythical figure, with all sorts of abilities attributed to him. I can speculate further...the archive may have been designed to "play" for people, perhaps its "on button" malfunctioned. Somehow the personalities or program was too sophisticated, when designed to play, they instead started taking liberites with the "scenery", in this case the Enterprise. Or as I mentioned before, the sophisticated program may simply have taken over. I honestly don't feel the need to have every detail spelled out for me, I enjoyed the results and it ranks alongside "Darmok" as a great episode.

Eh...your second issue under #1 really means absolutely nothing, its a time conceit used on most tv shows.

There's a few aspects about this episode I hate but here are the two bigger ones:

There's only so much I'm willing to "accept" when it comes to the manipulation of energy and matter in Trek. That these alien devices were turning pieces of the ship into stone and removing decks to make two-to-three story high temples strained that suspension beyond the breaking point. It was just too much that an entire section of the ship was made into this massive temple and when everything goes back to normal it simply fades back to a regular corridor.

But that's being a technobabble nitpicker.

Sorry I don't think this one is a big deal at all...we've seen other episodes with cultures capable of transmuting matter on massive scales (starting with TOS's second pilot: WNMHGB, Who Mourns for Adonais, Squire of Gothos, etc, many MANY, DOZENS, more). Several have had simply more advanced versions of the UFP's transporters/replicators. If you are willing to accept the transporter/replicator as an every day, common conceit of ST, then its not too far a jump to the Darsay Archive's abilities.

The biggest problem I had is that the episode struck me as nothing more than to give Spiner a chance to chew scenery and, frankly, I don't think the man is that great of an actor. He does a good job with Data but only because when he plays Data he's not "trying" to pull anything off but whenever he plays another character he turns the cheese up to 11 and plants himself down for a hardy meal of scenery. It doesn't come across as him playing another person with their own identity and persona it comes across as "Brent Spiner playing generic old man." The acting on Spiner's part, for me, in this episode was just plain painful to watch. It was engrossing, it wasn't interesting it wasn't "Wow! This guy might have a career as an actor when he gets done with TNG!" it was "ugh, who directed him to act like this."

And I feel that way whenever Spiner is 'trying' to act like a different person: Lore, old Dr. Soong, the "whimsical" dream Dr. Soong. The only times when Data acted "out of character" that was somewhat interesting was when he was "possessed" by Ira Graves, being controlled by Lore, and when he was possessed by the aliens in "Power Play." And there were a couple of times as Lore when he was good. But Spiner's best acting came when he wasn't trying. This was not in Masks.

Of course, this is a question of taste. In general the media/critic reviews were much kinder to Spiner than you are. The episode Masks even got a highlight pick from TV Guide for Spiner's performance. I tend to agree with TV Guide on this one.

The mythical characters have widely varying personalities and they tend to be larger than life (look at Clash of the Titans or any of the old Greek myth movies, or even the upcoming Thor...what actors do they get to play these roles...yes, larger than life ones...Shakespearean ones) I think Spiner plays it perfectly.

RAMA

 

[Captain Verata]

This episode along with Sub Rosa and Shades of Grey are the worse TNG episodes for me. I just didn't understand why such a powerful people would make a probe thing that will transform ships so it can play out a myth to people who might die from it. To me, that is just plain stupid and doesn't make any sense. Maybe I missed something. Why couldn't these people just have a normal library that people can access and learn the 'normal' way?

I willing to bet they didn't PLAN for the mythical personalities to get free reign. They seem to have accessed the power of the advanced probe to play out their scenerio once again. Regardless of that, concept, the production, FX, and acting would make this episode far above those you mentioned in quality.

Your "normal" way may not be normal for our culture 100 yrs from now, let alone 1000s. People discovered information differently before modern libraries, and the internet, Google, WIkipedia, portable wireless devices have changed that significantly in just a decade. The Enterprise crew had holodecks, why couldn't this civilization have a more expansive virtual construct than this?? I would chalk your final question up to lack of imagination on this point.

RAMA

What was the plan for the makers for this probe? Just to make random ships into some kind living story? The crew probably would have died if they didn't resolved the story which they lucky did in time. That doesn't makes sense.

Also, I agree this episode has better production quality then Sub Rosa or Shades of Grey. Actually, I would say the production is really good if not above average for a Star Trek show. The story is just so bad, imo that is.

 

[Tiberius]

* Data: "What does it feel like when a person is losing his mind?"

Data, trust me, I know you want to be human and all, but I don't think that's soemthing you want to know.

That's one of the things I hate about that episode. It's so cliched!

I feel like towards the end of Next gen they started using cliches as a way of furthering the ploit without actually having to write. Lazy storytelling.

* You just gotta love how easily Data/Masaka was able to take out those security guards using not even five hits altogether, or shoot, not even three! She's like "Wow! And these punks are supposed to be security guards? Please!"

or find it highly dubious...

 

[CaptainStoner]

Masaka approves of this thread.

 

[Kaziarl]

This episode along with Sub Rosa and Shades of Grey are the worse TNG episodes for me. I just didn't understand why such a powerful people would make a probe thing that will transform ships so it can play out a myth to people who might die from it. To me, that is just plain stupid and doesn't make any sense. Maybe I missed something. Why couldn't these people just have a normal library that people can access and learn the 'normal' way?

I willing to bet they didn't PLAN for the mythical personalities to get free reign. They seem to have accessed the power of the advanced probe to play out their scenerio once again. Regardless of that, concept, the production, FX, and acting would make this episode far above those you mentioned in quality.

Your "normal" way may not be normal for our culture 100 yrs from now, let alone 1000s. People discovered information differently before modern libraries, and the internet, Google, WIkipedia, portable wireless devices have changed that significantly in just a decade. The Enterprise crew had holodecks, why couldn't this civilization have a more expansive virtual construct than this?? I would chalk your final question up to lack of imagination on this point.

RAMA

What was the plan for the makers for this probe? Just to make random ships into some kind living story? The crew probably would have died if they didn't resolved the story which they lucky did in time. That doesn't makes sense.

Also, I agree this episode has better production quality then Sub Rosa or Shades of Grey. Actually, I would say the production is really good if not above average for a Star Trek show. The story is just so bad, imo that is.

They probably didn't plan on having the probe trapped inside a comet for who knows how long either. And for all we know it could have been damaged. (I think, but could be wrong, I remember them saying something to that effect actually.)

Maybe they had intended it to do it's work on a planet instead of a ship, but due to damage from being at the heart of a comet it just reached out to the nearest thing it could find.

People seem to think that stuff works only as intended, and that nothing ever malfunctions.

 

[RAMA]

This episode along with Sub Rosa and Shades of Grey are the worse TNG episodes for me. I just didn't understand why such a powerful people would make a probe thing that will transform ships so it can play out a myth to people who might die from it. To me, that is just plain stupid and doesn't make any sense. Maybe I missed something. Why couldn't these people just have a normal library that people can access and learn the 'normal' way?

I willing to bet they didn't PLAN for the mythical personalities to get free reign. They seem to have accessed the power of the advanced probe to play out their scenerio once again. Regardless of that, concept, the production, FX, and acting would make this episode far above those you mentioned in quality.

Your "normal" way may not be normal for our culture 100 yrs from now, let alone 1000s. People discovered information differently before modern libraries, and the internet, Google, WIkipedia, portable wireless devices have changed that significantly in just a decade. The Enterprise crew had holodecks, why couldn't this civilization have a more expansive virtual construct than this?? I would chalk your final question up to lack of imagination on this point.

RAMA

What was the plan for the makers for this probe? Just to make random ships into some kind living story? The crew probably would have died if they didn't resolved the story which they lucky did in time. That doesn't makes sense.

Also, I agree this episode has better production quality then Sub Rosa or Shades of Grey. Actually, I would say the production is really good if not above average for a Star Trek show. The story is just so bad, imo that is.

The plan most likely did NOT include it getting stuck in a comet!! Therefore, we can speculate it was accidentally caught there...whether the civilization died out or left it behind and left their region of space, we'll probably never know.

Interestingly, similar artifacts left over from other civilizations, sometimes resulting in psychological or physical phenomena have been the basis for other episodes of ST, often to good effect...possibly to best use in "The Inner Light". ST Voyager had several, even DS9 and TOS.

As for the crew dying while it was playing...you need to reread my last few posts...

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

* Data: "What does it feel like when a person is losing his mind?"

Data, trust me, I know you want to be human and all, but I don't think that's soemthing you want to know.

That's one of the things I hate about that episode. It's so cliched!

.

One of the great, and unexpected quotes of all of ST history. I love it.

Masaka approves of this thread.

There have been about 4 times I said I was going to stop responding to "Masks" threads...but I can't seem to help it. The Masks topic is one of my ST "triggers". I don't think there's another misunderstood episode I feel more strongly about.

RAMA

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

It's a bit strange how some episodes can be so hated. One side treats it like a no-duh, that it goes without saying that an episode is utterly horrible, described as crap, garbage, etc. The other side is astonished it provokes such vitriolic hate, being unable to see what people truly hate in it.

Now, campy so bad it's good episodes have this because some people can't perceive the so bad good quality. I like bad sci-fi movies from the 50s/60s, though I've seen a fair number of people don't get the appeal. "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold" fall into this category, "Genesis" too. "Masks" isn't quite campy though.

I actually like "Masks". It was at least an ok episode. The concepts used in it were interesting. I do think people hate it because it seems like magic (though any sci-fi fan should be ashamed if they don't know that Arthur C Clarke quote) and the only "magic" allowed in Star Trek is parlor tricks a la "Devils Due" (). But how many of these same people will accept the Prophets and their deus ex machina during the battle of DS9 without question?



I've been wondering about the hate many have for so much of Season 7. All 3 Treks with a 7th Season, the 7th season was rather weak, definately post-peak. Voyager's seemed to be the weakest though. I wonder if it (for TNG) was people's expectations. They expected a great final season and as the season wore on, the space for the potential, for people's hopes to be reached, grew smaller. With VOY, the writing went south for Seasons 6 & 7 ("Virtuoso", "Body & Soul", any episode with Barclay, and aspects of "Flesh and Blood" are the most damning signs), and with DS9, I'm not sure, I think it was the war arc dominating the season, limiting the stories that can be told, like a giant tree casting shade, preventing some seeds from sprouting.

"All Good Things..." was widely praised and is considered the best Trek finale of all 5. As a Voyager fan, "Endgame" sucked. It had some good elements, but Admiral Janeway and the future timeline stole the show (like Riker/Troi stole the show from ENT), "What You Leave Behind" also had some good dramatic elements ("final solution for Cardassia") but the war coming down to running down the hall to find the villain in zombie makeup barking orders was anticlimactic and the "great battle" was a clip show (what did they blow the budget on in S7? ) and it had a protracted epilogue, a little too protracted, and Sisko's storyline there was rather cliched.

I know the constant use of 'family' can get annoying. LaForge's flaming hot "mom", Data's robot grandma & Lore, Lwaxana Troi, Worf's brother, Picard's "son", and Crusher's... yeah, heirloom sex toy. Of course, even as a teen, I could recognize then that family was a theme in TNG across the series. As a final season, it seemed obvious the show would lean on that.

I think most episodes seem to have some detractors, more so than any other season. Only "Lower Decks" seems to lack it (and "Parallels", "The Pegasus"), though from my POV, it seems absurd the level of praise this episode gets and people's desire for it to get replicated over and over in so many series. Of course, I'm a "Darmok" fan and think it among the finest episodes in television (behind "Goodnight, Sweet Blues" from Route 66 though), though I don't think it should be replicated in other shows. I am inclined to think it expectations. "Gambit" seems to get trashed a bit (no kinetic energy playing cards? ), though seems ignored more than bashed, and while it is mediocre compared to "Chain of Command" & "Unification", it's more interesting than "Birthright" which feels like 2 separate stories glued together uncomfortably.


Why does "Masks" get so much hate while "Emergence" goes invisible? The Enterprise gives birth and subjects viewers to one last holodeck episode. How can this episode get ignored while people rail on "Masks", "Genesis", "Thine Old Self", "Force of Nature" and all those family episodes (minus "Interface")? I haven't been able to figure out my fellow Trek viewers, then again, I seem different from them as I can enjoy all 5 series, even *gasp* VOY and DS9 (I like VOY more, but each has their place, their style and DS9 was amazing for Saturday syndication). It's a great franchise and unlike some other series, the quality was incredibly consistent over almost all of the 25 'modern' seasons. You know what you're going to get with a Trek episode (though every series can throw some repulsive surprises at you, like "Ferengi Love Songs" or "Sub Rosa" or Barclay steals Voyager over and over again). It's good to decent sci-fi entertainment. I think it may be the appearance of magic with the ship transformation, some people just hating the mythology or the idea of Data as a villain. I thought it was handled better than VOY "Infinite Regress" (though that ep isn't remotely as bad as ENTs' ripoffs of "Shadowplay" and "One"). It just seems there's something visceral in "Masks" which makes people act like they want to smash & destroy the episode. Truly strange...

 

[RAMA]

It's a bit strange how some episodes can be so hated. One side treats it like a no-duh, that it goes without saying that an episode is utterly horrible, described as crap, garbage, etc. The other side is astonished it provokes such vitriolic hate, being unable to see what people truly hate in it.

Now, campy so bad it's good episodes have this because some people can't perceive the so bad good quality. I like bad sci-fi movies from the 50s/60s, though I've seen a fair number of people don't get the appeal. "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold" fall into this category, "Genesis" too. "Masks" isn't quite campy though.

I actually like "Masks". It was at least an ok episode. The concepts used in it were interesting. I do think people hate it because it seems like magic (though any sci-fi fan should be ashamed if they don't know that Arthur C Clarke quote) and the only "magic" allowed in Star Trek is parlor tricks a la "Devils Due" (). But how many of these same people will accept the Prophets and their deus ex machina during the battle of DS9 without question?



I've been wondering about the hate many have for so much of Season 7. All 3 Treks with a 7th Season, the 7th season was rather weak, definately post-peak. Voyager's seemed to be the weakest though. I wonder if it (for TNG) was people's expectations. They expected a great final season and as the season wore on, the space for the potential, for people's hopes to be reached, grew smaller. With VOY, the writing went south for Seasons 6 & 7 ("Virtuoso", "Body & Soul", any episode with Barclay, and aspects of "Flesh and Blood" are the most damning signs), and with DS9, I'm not sure, I think it was the war arc dominating the season, limiting the stories that can be told, like a giant tree casting shade, preventing some seeds from sprouting.

"All Good Things..." was widely praised and is considered the best Trek finale of all 5. As a Voyager fan, "Endgame" sucked. It had some good elements, but Admiral Janeway and the future timeline stole the show (like Riker/Troi stole the show from ENT), "What You Leave Behind" also had some good dramatic elements ("final solution for Cardassia") but the war coming down to running down the hall to find the villain in zombie makeup barking orders was anticlimactic and the "great battle" was a clip show (what did they blow the budget on in S7? ) and it had a protracted epilogue, a little too protracted, and Sisko's storyline there was rather cliched.

I know the constant use of 'family' can get annoying. LaForge's flaming hot "mom", Data's robot grandma & Lore, Lwaxana Troi, Worf's brother, Picard's "son", and Crusher's... yeah, heirloom sex toy. Of course, even as a teen, I could recognize then that family was a theme in TNG across the series. As a final season, it seemed obvious the show would lean on that.

I think most episodes seem to have some detractors, more so than any other season. Only "Lower Decks" seems to lack it (and "Parallels", "The Pegasus"), though from my POV, it seems absurd the level of praise this episode gets and people's desire for it to get replicated over and over in so many series. Of course, I'm a "Darmok" fan and think it among the finest episodes in television (behind "Goodnight, Sweet Blues" from Route 66 though), though I don't think it should be replicated in other shows. I am inclined to think it expectations. "Gambit" seems to get trashed a bit (no kinetic energy playing cards? ), though seems ignored more than bashed, and while it is mediocre compared to "Chain of Command" & "Unification", it's more interesting than "Birthright" which feels like 2 separate stories glued together uncomfortably.


Why does "Masks" get so much hate while "Emergence" goes invisible? The Enterprise gives birth and subjects viewers to one last holodeck episode. How can this episode get ignored while people rail on "Masks", "Genesis", "Thine Old Self", "Force of Nature" and all those family episodes (minus "Interface")? I haven't been able to figure out my fellow Trek viewers, then again, I seem different from them as I can enjoy all 5 series, even *gasp* VOY and DS9 (I like VOY more, but each has their place, their style and DS9 was amazing for Saturday syndication). It's a great franchise and unlike some other series, the quality was incredibly consistent over almost all of the 25 'modern' seasons. You know what you're going to get with a Trek episode (though every series can throw some repulsive surprises at you, like "Ferengi Love Songs" or "Sub Rosa" or Barclay steals Voyager over and over again). It's good to decent sci-fi entertainment. I think it may be the appearance of magic with the ship transformation, some people just hating the mythology or the idea of Data as a villain. I thought it was handled better than VOY "Infinite Regress" (though that ep isn't remotely as bad as ENTs' ripoffs of "Shadowplay" and "One"). It just seems there's something visceral in "Masks" which makes people act like they want to smash & destroy the episode. Truly strange...

It struck me as I read your post that "Masks" might have gotten swept up in the backlash against an uneven season 7. "Emergence" is on of the worst episodes of STNG in my opinion, and to even put these two eps in the same category, defies credibility in my opinion, but some people seem to do it. Also I watched "Thine Own Self" and "Masks" together last night and they are both damn fine episodes, "TOS" has somewhat less impact but is still a good Data episode.

Another thing I am sensing--and I may be wrong on this point--but I think people are used to horror movies and the like (I rarely watch them myself) and without some kind of horror show and bloody SFX ending people were disappointed with the ending. I absolutely love that STNG and ST in general eschews this type of ending for something, dare I say it: more "cerebral", ie: Picard using his experience and knowledge of archaeology and ancient cultures (first seen in 2nd season "Contagion") to figure out and then solve the puzzle needed to quiet Masaka.

RAMA

 

[startrekwatcher]

It struck me as I read your post that "Masks" might have gotten swept up in the backlash against an uneven season 7.

It got swept up in the backlash because it was yet another good idea poorly executed in a very weak episode just like so many other season seven episodes i.e. Eye of the Beholder, Emergence, Force of Nature, Sub Rosa.

"Emergence" is on of the worst episodes of STNG in my opinion, and to even put these two eps in the same category/

Both episodes are lumped together because they are these weird of-beat episodes that just don't work--that's why they are mentione in the same breath--they are also both written by Mensoky who are known for these sorts of nutty shows.

"Emergence" could have been great--I loved the ide of the Enterprise achieving sentience--that's the kind of shake-up appropriate for a final season but instead they backstep and switch to this stupid idea of the ship being a means to give birth to some weird half-realized, hal-developed plot macguffin. So ultimately we spend the hour spinning wheels.

Another thing I am sensing--and I may be wrong on this point--but I think people are used to horror movies and the like (I rarely watch them myself) and without some kind of horror show and bloody SFX ending people were disappointed with the ending.

You are definitely wrong. No one has even suggested such a thing as to why they don't like it. They've repeatedly mentioned poor writing, a silly story, a weak ending etc but nothing about not being bloody or violent enough

I think anyone who is still watching the series by the seventh season don't expect that or would event want that sort of thing and the lack of violence is the appeal of why they watched TNG in the first place.

 

[RAMA]

It struck me as I read your post that "Masks" might have gotten swept up in the backlash against an uneven season 7.

It got swept up in the backlash because it was yet another good idea poorly executed in a very weak episode just like so many other season seven episodes i.e. Eye of the Beholder, Emergence, Force of Nature, Sub Rosa.

"Emergence" is on of the worst episodes of STNG in my opinion, and to even put these two eps in the same category/

Both episodes are lumped together because they are these weird of-beat episodes that just don't work--that's why they are mentione in the same breath--they are also both written by Mensoky who are known for these sorts of nutty shows.

"Emergence" could have been great--I loved the ide of the Enterprise achieving sentience--that's the kind of shake-up appropriate for a final season but instead they backstep and switch to this stupid idea of the ship being a means to give birth to some weird half-realized, hal-developed plot macguffin. So ultimately we spend the hour spinning wheels.

Another thing I am sensing--and I may be wrong on this point--but I think people are used to horror movies and the like (I rarely watch them myself) and without some kind of horror show and bloody SFX ending people were disappointed with the ending.

You are definitely wrong. No one has even suggested such a thing as to why they don't like it. They've repeatedly mentioned poor writing, a silly story, a weak ending etc but nothing about not being bloody or violent enough

I think anyone who is still watching the series by the seventh season don't expect that or would event want that sort of thing and the lack of violence is the appeal of why they watched TNG in the first place.

I'm the one who suggested it. Its an extrapolation based on a couple of people saying they expected a different ending. What I'm saying is, when episodes that have candles and dark settings and an otherwise "spooky" atmospheres they seem to expect something cliched and "horror" like. That may be why they were left wanting..since I've pretty much countered every argument and shown why it wasn't "silly, badly written", etc. I'm trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense to me.

Again, lumping Emergence and Masks together is not credible and very hard to take seriously...

RAMA

 

[Tomalak]

Probably the worst TNG episode in my opinion. It's a fairly good premise, ruined by some awful dialogue, which rapidly descends into an excuse for Brent Spiner to ham it up with some "hilarious" comedy voices. TNG has a good few boring episodes, but this one is actively irritating.

The only bearable way to experience the episode is to exclusively watch Jonathan Frakes' face to see how pissed off he looks throughout.

But then I like Emergence. Go figure!

 

[RAMA]

Probably the worst TNG episode in my opinion. It's a fairly good premise, ruined by some awful dialogue, which rapidly descends into an excuse for Brent Spiner to ham it up with some "hilarious" comedy voices. TNG has a good few boring episodes, but this one is actively irritating.

The only bearable way to experience the episode is to exclusively watch Jonathan Frakes' face to see how pissed off he looks throughout.

But then I like Emergence. Go figure!

Well whatever...I don't think I can say any more on the subject. I'm going to start pasting this thread up from now on when people start Masks threads.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

But then I like Emergence. Go figure!

Ditto.

 

[LitmusDragon]

I like this episode a lot. It's like a weird dream. I think David Lynch should have directed it.

 

[dgrrr]

You want to know why it's bad? Moussaka on the space-toilet says "I do not hear you", and Worf, as if offended, declares, "She will not even listen to us!" Like he's gonna go tell his mom. It's the dumbest line ever. Give it a miniute, you clueless vulva-head.

Also Brent Spiner gave Moussaka the same voice as eHat, which is lazy. No oscar moment for you actor boy.

 

[Vger23]

I always liked Masks...but then again, I liked TNG much better when it did this really bizarre "off-the-wall" type stuff than when it was doing Klingon Politics, kid stories, relative-of-a-main-character stories, Lwaxana stories...etc.

I much prefer Masks, Emergence (as someone else mentioned), The Royale, Where Silence Has Lease, Schisms, Frame of Mind, Time Squared, and so forth... MUCH more than I like The Bonding, Data's Day, Homeward, Bloodlines, The Icarus Factor, Emissary, Sins of the Father, etc.

So for me, Masks was a lot of fun. That "weird" factor will push an episode above the preponderance of many of the more mundane episodes every time.