Mars - One way...would you go?

[KJbushway]

thanks for the good luck. no seriously. I am going to be a mechanic. one of my core classes I have to learn is about eletrical and about micro-computers. I am still digging by myself. I would just love to dig a big hole.

There's a universe of difference between changing the timing belt on a modern day import and building an underground bunker.

I never said it was an underground bunker. And different things other than timing belts could be useful when building your own basement. One day I will show pictures, but I have to build it first.


Mars is a cool place. though I wonder, could have intelligent life once lived there or any life for that matter.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Mars is a cool place.

What's cool about it, though? I mean, it does seem quite dull.

Tuscany is a cool place. Mars? Not so much.

 

[KJbushway]

difference in how I view things and you view things.

 

[Silvercrest]

Mars cool? In fact, it's cold as hell.

 

[Finn]

I never said it was an underground bunker. And different things other than timing belts could be useful when building your own basement. One day I will show pictures, but I have to build it first.


Mars is a cool place. though I wonder, could have intelligent life once lived there or any life for that matter.

Hey kid, he wasn't saying you said you would build a bunker. He was trying to tell you something after a certain poster said something about underground bunkers. You seem to have difficulties picking up social cues, like thinking a poster actually kidnapped a baby for a photo op.

Mars may have had bacteria-like life. It's highly unlikely Mars had advanced life beyond Protista.

 

[KJbushway]

I never said it was an underground bunker. And different things other than timing belts could be useful when building your own basement. One day I will show pictures, but I have to build it first.


Mars is a cool place. though I wonder, could have intelligent life once lived there or any life for that matter.

Hey kid, he wasn't saying you said you would build a bunker. He was trying to tell you something after a certain poster said something about underground bunkers. You seem to have difficulties picking up social cues, like thinking a poster actually kidnapped a baby for a photo op.

Mars may have had bacteria-like life. It's highly unlikely Mars had advanced life beyond Protista.

hey kid, really? Atleast I call people by their names. I didn't mean it to sound ass-hole ish. I was just saying, plus if he took offense to it, I think he or she can handle themselves. That poster and kidnapped baby, do you really think I am that stupid to believe that someone actually commented a kidnapping and admitted on a socail network site. I think you missed some social cues there.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Wow, I think it's about time kjbushway makes an appearance in TNZ.

 

[iguana_tonante]

someone actually commented a kidnapping.

"Well, that was a quite good kidnapping, old chap! Smart planning, good timing, excellent execution. Kudos to you, my good sir!"

 

[Finn]

*Pushes some buttons*

*smoke rises*

Yep!


I think Mars is nice this time of year.

 

[sojourner]

Wow, I think it's about time kjbushway makes an appearance in TNZ.

He's been and gone.

 

[KJbushway]

someone actually commented a kidnapping.

"Well, that was a quite good kidnapping, old chap! Smart planning, good timing, excellent execution. Kudos to you, my good sir!"

oops sry about the word mix-up.

Commented was suppposed to be committed(I could still be getting it wrong.)

 

[KJbushway]

Wow, I think it's about time kjbushway makes an appearance in TNZ.

He's been and gone.

I still look, I just don't see anything interesting and or that I think that I can add too.

 

[Psion]

*Pushes some buttons*

*smoke rises*

Yep!


I think Mars is nice this time of year.

Congratulations, Finn! We're all very proud of you.

Well ... perhaps I'm exaggerating a bit.

 

[Squiggy]

Mars is a cool place. though I wonder, could have intelligent life once lived there or any life for that matter.

No, and perhaps.

Mars hasn't been suitable for life for a few billions years, meaning that if intelligent life were to develop on Mars, it would've had about a month to do it. If life did evolve on Mars, it wouldn't have gotten past the very early steps before it became inhospitable.

If you're really interested in going to space, you should learn some stuff about it. Sadly, it seems that you're already behind the curve when it comes to science and engineering and other traits that would make you suitable to space flight.

Not to mention that you won't go on a roller-coaster. That alone takes you out of contention. You might want to get over your fear of heights before you strap yourself to a rocket for your one-way mission of doom to Mars that will supposedly inspire the youth.

 

[John O.]

Mars is a cool place. though I wonder, could have intelligent life once lived there or any life for that matter.

No, and perhaps.

Mars hasn't been suitable for life for a few billions years, meaning that if intelligent life were to develop on Mars, it would've had about a month to do it. If life did evolve on Mars, it wouldn't have gotten past the very early steps before it became inhospitable.

I think you're overstating the certainty with which we (as a scientific community) have nailed down a few things:

1. How long it takes for live to develop
2. How much longer it takes for intelligent life to develop
3. What natural or artificial processes a habitable planet might undergo which would make it uninhabitable
4. The time scale for said events to take place and bring a planet to Mars' present state

For one thing, Mars is considered to be roughly the same age as the Earth - 4.6 bn years being a commonly cited figure. The entire crux of the problem of the study of astrobiology is that we have only one single case to study, and since we have a fairly strong suspicion that planetary geology, composition and formation is probably going to have a strong connection to the way it develops climatologically over billions of years, we genuinely do not have the data to support the supposition that the environmental conditions on Mars would A. take the same amount of time to become habitable to similar carbon based life as they did on Earth or B. that extinction level conditions could not develop and eradicate life inside of .5-1 bn years. As a first guess we have to ask ourselves whether climatological changes on that scale could initiate, continue and conclude on that order of time on Earth. Considering the fact that geologically and climatologically the Earth looks radically different today than it did 250 million years ago, there's a pretty decent argument for believing that extinction conditions can take place in a pretty small time frame, astronomically speaking.

It may be a valid 1st estimate to assume that Mars would've required the same amount of time as the Earth to develop a habitable ecosystem but it's by no means a supported conclusion held up by a bunch of facts about geophysical evolution or astrobiology, because we simply don't have the study material yet, we don't have a body of evidence other than our one planet to draw conclusions from. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that it took ~3.5 bn years for life to develop on Mars and then another 1bn years for it to be eradicated by climate change or natural disaster. And the smaller time frame we are willing to accept that it was possible for extinction conditions to take place in, the smaller the disparity we have to accept in the time it took for life to develop on each planet.

 

[Psion]

Very nicely put, John O! People forget that science is about asking questions, not delivering put-downs. "We just don't know" is the jumping-off point for amazing discoveries, and it's okay to answer a scientific question with qualifiers and uncertainty.

I'm embarrassed for some of the posts in this thread. KJbushway is young and naive and reality is going to knock his idealism around a lot over the next few years, but I remember being that young and thinking I could take on the world. And I accomplished a lot of things I wouldn't have tried if I had known better, too. I also made a lot of mistakes. But the haughty arrogance with which he's being treated is just mean.

He's one kid with a mild case of over-confidence. If you can't help him over the bumps in his life with grace and good-humor, you haven't been paying attention in yours.

 

[Sean Aaron]

He's one kid with a mild case of over-confidence. If you can't help him over the bumps in his life with grace and good-humor, you haven't been paying attention in yours.

Broadly speaking I'd agree, but what we're seeing here is a case of someone being bloody-minded about something that will result in a fine at a minimum and possibly death at worst. It's beyond a "mild case of overconfidence" and appears to be more a dangerous case of foolhardiness.

 

[Shatnertage]

I don't think my original point--that excavating his own basement would be costly, time-consuming, and possibly unsafe, and that he'd be better off spending his time and money doing other stuff--is really "haughty arrogance."

To me, arrogance is claiming that you're going to build a basement, become an astronaut, and solve all the world's problems some day, while right now you lack the attention to detail and consideration of others to use spell check.

 

[Squiggy]

He's one kid with a mild case of over-confidence.

No. That's not it.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I think you're overstating the certainty with which we (as a scientific community) have nailed down a few things:

1. How long it takes for live to develop
2. How much longer it takes for intelligent life to develop
3. What natural or artificial processes a habitable planet might undergo which would make it uninhabitable
4. The time scale for said events to take place and bring a planet to Mars' present state

This is true, however I take a different perspective on the matter. In particular, I believe that right now it is safe to assume that there never was sentient life on Mars.

It is true, our knowledge of life and extraterrestrial life is very limited, and it is mostly based on wild assumptions that might be very much incorrect (many of them possibly are), and we haven't had the chance to even begin making rigorous scientific tests on those assumptions, so we aren't even sure how uncertain we are. But we are capable of making very well-thought and reasonable assumptions, and we are also capable of drawing good conclusions even when we are uncertain about many of the premises.

1. It's very much expected that any life on Mars developed at a slower rate than Earth (less energy input, presumably worse conditions).
2. It's quite possible, even likely, that life never started on Mars. We don't know how common is life in the Universe, but the best initial assumption would be that it is possibly common but not everywhere. The "not everywhere" part would imply that it's more likely that life didn't start on Mars. (By "everywhere" I mean "everywhere where the conditions seem favourable".)
3. If life existed for a very long time on Mars, and especially if there was complex life, it would have left tons of evidence behind. So far we haven't found any. It's true that we haven't spent enough resources looking for that evidence, so that's very far from a confirmation of any sort, but it's very strange if Mars was rich in life recently and we haven't picked anything that would suggest so.

At this point I think it's safe to assume that Mars is more likely to be lifeless than otherwise and I'm almost certain that any life on it never reached sentient phase.

Now, here comes the most wonderful thing of science - you test what you expect, you test the obvious, you test what you're certain of, and you also retest what science has already proven. The best scientific results are those that contradict your expectations, because that's when you learn most. That's why it's important to study Mars better, regardless of whether we “know” or not.

We don't test things because we are uncertain in them, we test things to confirm them, and even when we're pretty much certain in them for one reason or another so that we can increase the certainty and, more importantly, be surprised.