Marqi did no wrong change my mind

[Crazyewok]

So Marqi did not wrong change my mind

The Federation literally gave peoples homes over to xenophobic Facist lizards. Facists with a history of oppression and genocide.
Then when the Facists started acting like Facists and began attacking Federation colonists under the guise of militias and vigilante groups the Federation did nothing.

Arming and fighting was the only thing these colonists could do as no one else was helping them.

The Federation is responsible for the situation. The Federation was in the wrong to appease the cardassisns.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maquis.

Named after the IRL WW2 French Resistance cell.

The Federation said "Come with us or you will probably die" but they did not come, and they almost certainly died.

Dumbos are going to dumbo.

 

[Crazyewok]

Maquis.

Named after the IRL WW2 French Resistance cell.

Dammit I'm abit drunk and forgot the U could someone change that in the title and also not to nothing?

The Federation said "Come with us or you will probably die" but they did not come, and they almost certainly died.

Dumbos are going to dumbo.

Why should they come? It was their home. The federation should of protected them not abandoned them.

 

[Takeru]

Then when the Facists started acting like Facists and began attacking Federation colonists ...

They weren't federation colonists anymore, they gave up their citizenship and became citizens of the cardassian union when they decided to stay on their colonies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Dammit I'm abit drunk and forgot the U could someone change that in the title and also not to nothing?


Why should they come? It was their home. The federation should of protected them not abandoned them.

Remember that time on the West Wing When they moved the Border, and Donna became Canadian?

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[Timofnine]

I bring forward Michael Eddington as my first witness…

 

[Crazyewok]

They weren't federation colonists anymore, they gave up their citizenship and became citizens of the cardassian union when they decided to stay on their colonies.

Yeah, Because the federation abandoned them.

The federation had a duty to protect them and not give them up to space NAZI's to buy a few years of false peace.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So Marqi did not wrong change my mind

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[Bad Thoughts]

Created a weapon for genocide.

QED.

 

[Crazyewok]

Created a weapon for genocide.

QED.

Which never would of happened if the Federation hadn't abandoned them and left them with their backs against the wall.

They were concerned and fighting against a superior regional power.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Which never would of happened if the Federation hadn't abandoned them and left them with their backs against the wall.

They were concerned and fighting against a superior regional power.

That's not really provable. Certainly, a number of Maquis were general malcontents who wanted to rebel against Starfleet, but were not themselves directly affected by the territorial changes. Michael Eddington was one of them.

 

[Shawnster]

The federation had a duty to protect them and not give them up to space NAZI's to buy a few years of false peace

Nope. The border changed. They were no longer in Federation space. The Federation lived up to their obligation by offering to move them to a new location inside Federation space. By choosing to stay, the Marquis renounced their Federation citizenship. They were no longer Federation citizens. At best they were independent and at worst they were Cardassian citizens.

War sucks. Politics suck. Those people were victims of politics that settled the Cardassian border conflict with the Federation.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yeah, Because the federation abandoned them.

The federation had a duty to protect them and not give them up to space NAZI's to buy a few years of false peace.

So the settlers on the border should have been beaten until they obeyed, chained to the inside of a space railway car, and directed to a relocation camp?

This is probably meant to be book ends to season 2's Ensigns of Command, where the settlers told the Federation to jump in the lake, and Data set their town on fire, and blew up aqueduct after aqueduct, until the settlers relented and agreed to relocation.

Also...

Cardasian farmers now on the Federation side of the Border, if such a thing happened, would have been given full citizenship to the Federation, and been protected by Federation law.

If the Cardassians won their war against the humans, in Chain of Command, they would not have pulled out of Bajor, and no one would have discovered the Wormhole and the Dominion War would never have happened, as it did.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That's not really provable. Certainly, a number of Maquis were general malcontents who wanted to rebel against Starfleet, but were not themselves directly affected by the territorial changes. Michael Eddington was one of them.

The war changed over time.

1. Farmers versus farmers.

2. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, vs farmers,

3. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, vs. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons.

4. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, and mercenaries vs. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, and mercenaries.

5. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, and mercenaries and tourist patriots looking for a noble cause vs. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, and mercenaries and tourist patriots looking for a noble cause.

6. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, and mercenaries and tourist patriots looking for a noble cause and psychos looking for an opportunity to kill for shits and giggles vs. Farmers gifted military grade weapons by middle tier patrons, and mercenaries and tourist patriots looking for a noble cause and psychos looking for an opportunity to kill for shits and giggles.

7. Then the farmers were all dead, or fucked off because they were too old for this shit, and after their farm got bombed into a crater, why the fuck bother? Revenge? Oh, that will end well!

8. Independent planets vs. an evil empire.

9. A league of independent planets vs two evil empires.

10. A league of independent planets crushed to death under the heal of the mighty Dominion.

11. Eddington with a cunning plan, striking from beyond the grave of his demolished organization.

 

[fireproof78]

Nope. The border changed. They were no longer in Federation space. The Federation lived up to their obligation by offering to move them to a new location inside Federation space. By choosing to stay, the Marquis renounced their Federation citizenship. They were no longer Federation citizens. At best they were independent and at worst they were Cardassian citizens.

War sucks. Politics suck. Those people were victims of politics that settled the Cardassian border conflict with the Federation.

Indeed. In fact, they're giving up their territory would have supported peace and avoided long term warfare with the Cardassians. In other words, the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few.

 

[at Quark's]

More generally, is a nation allowed to cede territory to another nation, contrary to the wish of the (majority of) inhabitants living in that territory?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

More generally, is a nation allowed to cede territory to another nation, contrary to the wish of the (majority of) inhabitants living in that territory?

But that's the thing. It wasn't contrary to the wishes of the colonists. They WANTED to stay on their homeworlds, knowing full well they would now be Cardassian citizens. The colonists knew exactly what they were getting into.

Now of course this does not justify the Cardies' later treatment of them, but it puts the lie to the notion that the Federation gave away the colonies without consent. The colonists gave FULL consent.

 

[at Quark's]

^ But did they agree with the Federation's decision to hand the territory over to the Cardassians in the first place? I highly doubt that.

That they wanted to stay (most probably) despite the transfer of authority to the Cardassians is another matter.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ But did they agree with the Federation's decision to hand the territory over to the Cardassians in the first place? I highly doubt that.

I don't know. But it doesn't really matter. It's not their place to question major political decisions like this. That's not how realpolitik works.

In any case, if the Maquis are so stubborn and thickheaded that they insist on staying in Cardassian territory, knowing full well what the Cardassians are capable of, I'm not inclined to sympathize with them. They could have moved. That would have avoided this whole mess.

And don't give me that "we don't want to abandon our homes" crap. In the Federation, where there is a near-infinite amount of living space, and the colonists' "homes" can be re-created in precise detail, the question of what is a "home" loses much of its meaning. Home is where you lay your hat.

 

[at Quark's]

I don't know. But it doesn't really matter. It's not their place to question major political decisions like this. That's not how realpolitik works.

I'll take that as your answer to my original question ('More generally, is a nation allowed <etc>').

In any case, if the Maquis are so stubborn and thickheaded that they insist on staying in Cardassian territory, knowing full well what the Cardassians are capable of, I'm not inclined to sympathize with them. They could have moved. That would have avoided this whole mess.

And don't give me that "we don't want to abandon our homes" crap. In the Federation, where there is a near-infinite amount of living space, and the colonists' "homes" can be re-created in precise detail, the question of what is a "home" loses much of its meaning. Home is where you lay your hat.

I tend to agree with that -space enough in the Federation.

However it's possible some evolved a belief that no other ground would do, that no other planet, no matter how good the place was - could possibly ever be a complete replacement to their 'sacred' home ground. After all, we've seen this happen in the real world with some people(s), too.