Nope...Rule #4 states that "neither" and "either" require a singular verb. 
Maps "canon" thoughts
- Thread starter fungun
- Start date
This always kind of bugged me. Why did the Klingons care so much about defending the Alpha Quadrant when they are in the Beta Quadrant?
The Klingons' biggest enemies (Romulans) and greatest allies (the Federation) are close by. For this reason alone, they are affected by Alpha Quadrant geo (or astro) politics.
I actually suspect the lack of contact with the Cardassians was due to the Federation declaring a trade embargo against them much like nations have done against countries whose policies they find repugnant. I imagine that trading with the Cardassians was forbidden to Federation citizens because of the repressive policies of their government, and that true contact only REALLY came about once their borders bumped right up against each other in the beginning of the 24th century.
(The Trek XI timeline is a whole other question. I have an entire fanfic story around what happened there, in my opinion...)
(The Trek XI timeline is a whole other question. I have an entire fanfic story around what happened there, in my opinion...)
Are we assuming that the Delphic Expanse 'went away' just because it was only ever mentioned in Enterprise or has their ever been a canon reference to it disappearing?
Maybe this is just another one of those pesky warp corridor questions. It never gets mentioned because safe corridors through the expanse have now been mapped?
Maybe this is just another one of those pesky warp corridor questions. It never gets mentioned because safe corridors through the expanse have now been mapped?
The Expanse was destroyed in Zero Hour.
I suppose the Klingon/Cardassian border could be located below the Federation. It doesn't become visible unless you're looking at a three-dimensional map.
There's nothing to say Cardassians wern't "around" in the TOS era. We just never saw them - just like the Suliban and the Xindi. Remember we only saw the TOS universe from the perspective of one ship. Who knows? Had Enterprise carried on we may have gotten a first contact episode.
I disagree with your disagreement. Close scrutiny of ENT indicates that exploration of space was largely contained in the Beta Quadrant, perhaps as a result of failed Alpha missions like Terra Nova. Also before Warp 5, it wasn't practical to do any deep space missions. Returning Klaang to Qo'noS sorta forced us to begin in the Beta Quadrant.
After the Romulan War, exploration in TOS-era was mostly in the "south-east" area of the Beta Quadrant. I think most ship missions at this early time were very focused in one area. One: to avoid the Romulans. Two: to monitor and compete in a "space-race" with the Klingons. With a century of friction, a result would be to have most of Starfleet in this area anyway, so why not explore while you patrol?
Now just because Starlfleet didn't have much direct contact with the major Alpha Quadrant races, others in the Beta Quadrant certainly did. The Klingons had tried, unsuccessfully, to invade Breen. The Organians and Vulcans had at least some contact with Cardassians. And "Acquisition" sort-of explains why we didn't bump into the Ferengi again until the mid-24th century. It isn't surprising that we didn't venture much into the Alpha Quadrant; Kosinski noted in "WNOHGB" that by that epsiode humanity had only explored 11% of the galaxy.
I believe the gates to the Alpha Quadrant were opened during the movie-era and even a bit before. Emony Dax had made it to Earth in the mid-23rd century. Picard said that he was learning about the Bajorans while he was in school (early 2300s). With the explosion of Praxis, Nerendra III and the Khitomer accords, the Tomed incident sending the Romulans into isolation and the reconfiguration of the Warp Scale (i.e. faster ships), Starfleet began stretching out into the AQ. But note, it didn't take long before friction begain. It was only about 55 years between TUC and the Setlik III massacre. "The Icarus Factor" and "Peak Performance" suggest trouble with the Tholians about 5 years later. Three more years later in 2355, Picard bumps into the Ferengi at Maxia. 2357, the Talarian boarder skirmishes start. And around 2361, while Sisko was on the Okinawa, there is war with the Tzenkethi. So in a relative small window of time, Starfleet had its share of misfortunes by entering into the Alpha Quadrant.
Sorry fungun, but that link pointed to scans of a copyrighted work, and that's not permitted.
Regarding the issue of contact with Cardassia, STXI offers its own spices to the mix by making "Cardassia" a household name by 2255 (the drinks served in that Iowan bar).
Nothing wrong with that. Cardassians appeared to behave themselves before taking over Bajor; Kirk would have nothing bad to say about them, and if Kirk has nothing bad to say about people... Nothing in canon indicates that Earth wouldn't have known about Cardassians ever since 2063. And, like mythme says, other eventual members of the UFP may have learned of them centuries prior.
Just because A and B know about a species doesn't mean C would, though. The Ferengi were well known to the UFP in "Encounter at Farpoint" - on the level of rumors. Apparently, coexisting with the Ferengi in the local space for 200 years wasn't sufficient for turning those rumors into authentic knowledge... Which is only to be expected, as the Ferengi are quite secretive and thoroughly insincere, right up to the point where business relations with you bring more profit than piracy on you!
Let's remember again that Kirk was the first Starfleet skipper to report back on Pollux, a star right next door to our Sol. Clearly, space exploration between the 2150s and 2260s left all sorts of lacunae in between the known friends and foes, filled only with rumors or less.
Timo Saloniemi
Nothing wrong with that. Cardassians appeared to behave themselves before taking over Bajor; Kirk would have nothing bad to say about them, and if Kirk has nothing bad to say about people... Nothing in canon indicates that Earth wouldn't have known about Cardassians ever since 2063. And, like mythme says, other eventual members of the UFP may have learned of them centuries prior.
Just because A and B know about a species doesn't mean C would, though. The Ferengi were well known to the UFP in "Encounter at Farpoint" - on the level of rumors. Apparently, coexisting with the Ferengi in the local space for 200 years wasn't sufficient for turning those rumors into authentic knowledge... Which is only to be expected, as the Ferengi are quite secretive and thoroughly insincere, right up to the point where business relations with you bring more profit than piracy on you!
Let's remember again that Kirk was the first Starfleet skipper to report back on Pollux, a star right next door to our Sol. Clearly, space exploration between the 2150s and 2260s left all sorts of lacunae in between the known friends and foes, filled only with rumors or less.
Timo Saloniemi
It's also entirely possible that the Cardassian Union never made direct contact with the Federation at all before the 24th Century, and Cardassian beverages made their way to Earth via trade intermediaries, in the same way that Chinese silk made its way to Europe centuries before there was direct Chinese-European contact.
ETA:
For what it's worth, the novels have seemed to establish that direct Federation-Cardassian first contact was made in 2327.
Maybe the "Cardassian Sunrise" was introduced to the Federation by a third party.
First contact...
"We are the mighty Cardassian Union, bow before us puny Federation!"
"Cardassian? As in, the drink?"
First contact...
"We are the mighty Cardassian Union, bow before us puny Federation!"
"Cardassian? As in, the drink?"
When you consider the canon differences between the original Klingon appearance and later, yeah I can buy your theory.I've a theory the First Federation were actually Ferengi.
My two cents.
Prior to the Romulan war early Earth explorations were fairly symmetrical around and away from Earth, moving around other races territories and known claims. A expanding sphere basically. Once the Romulan war started that changed, in the begining the goal was just to the push the Romulans away from Earth and allied space. This turn into the grand strategy, faced with a series of military defeats the Romulans started to retreat, the allied force peeled them out of one star system after another, the allies chased they hundred and then thousands of light years. Earth made new allies along the way, established bases, eventual the Romulan were pushed back into their "home" territory, the allies couldn't push them back anymore. This is where the NZ was created.
At this point Earth had bases thousands of light years away in one single direction away from Earth and almost none less than a hundred light years in others. Think of it as a corridor or tube leading from Earth to Romulas. Since the bases and allies were already there in this big corridor, that is where Earth and later Starfleet concentrated their explorations. Since they were perceived as a threat, a similar corridor grew toward the Klingons. The Federation, even by Kirk's era, wasn't a perfectly shaped ball. Where the Romulan and Klingon empires "boarders" were there was a area of highly explored space, however Starfleet's explorations was still back filling large areas of space that had been by-passed decades before.
That is why Kirk was exploring and discovering new planets and races relatively close to Earth.
Even by Picard's time, Starfleet was still exploring areas for the first time that were the same distance from Earth as the Romulan NZ that was established 180 years before. This is "the Rim" of the Federation that Picard spoke of. This is the reason the Cardassian are a relatively resent discovery by the Federation, even though they are, on the map, no farther away than the Romulans and the Klingons.
When you consider the canon differences between the original Klingon appearance and later, yeah I can buy your theory.I've a theory the First Federation were actually Ferengi.
That was going to be my defense if any one said the FF captain didn't look like a Ferengi.
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