Maps "canon" thoughts
- Thread starter fungun
- Start date
Hmm...I actually think both maps may have an error on them. I THINK the Cardassian Union is supposed to share a border with the Klingon Empire, but neither of them reflects that.
The Star Charts map has so many inconsistancies. It has the Equinox being taken to the delta Quadrant a year or two after Voyager, despite the Caretaker being dead at that point. It also shows Klack D'kell Bracht (or whatever) as a different region to the Briar Patch. And what's with that bit of the Federation on the other side of Klingon space?
it's all inaccurate until someone makes a book using three-dee holos and shows space and the territories as amorphous blobs that look like amoebas having an orgy.
The Star Charts material on ENT is more or less all unusable because the maps for that era were thrown together before even the first season was completely digested. Many ENT S1 locations are fine nevertheless - but the map seems to assume the ship returned to Earth after "Broken Bow" and set out again from there, while the episodes make clear that this never happened. The zigzag path should start from Qo'noS (or from the position to which NX-01 had to withdraw after delivering Klaag to Qo'noS), not from Earth...
The material on VOY suffers from a couple of well-known goofs (Talax in a wrong place, Equinox data iffy, some distances wonky), but is mostly okay. And the material on the Gamma Quadrant might be interpreted to have a tenfold scaling error... Runabouts shouldn't be able to make expeditions as long as those depicted.
However, I'd argue that there's no need for a Klingon-Cardassian border. That is, no such border is needed until the Klingons send their fleet across UFP and neutral space and conquer a few Cardassian planets in "Way of the Warrior", then hold them until the Dominion drives them out again.
All we have on Klingon-Cardassian interaction before that is a mention in "Way of the Warrior" about a 18-year conflict at Betreka Nebula, a conflict that ended some 20 years before the episode. The Star Charts assume that this nebula sat between the empires but didn't touch their borders, as apparently the Klingons didn't show any further interest in that direction of space when they attacked in "Way of the Warrior". The novel Art of the Impossible takes that idea and runs with it, suggesting Betreka Nebula was distant from both empires and worthless to both, yet became a hotbed and a costly quagmire because a single planet next to it contained historical artifacts important to both sides.
Similarly, there's no explicit evidence of a Romulan-Cardassian border. Or a Tholian-Cardassian one, or anything else for that matter... Besides the UFP-Cardassian (DMZ, the Maquis) and Breen-Cardassian (the rivalry revealed in "Return to Grace" and expanded on during the last season) ones. One can have conflict between A and B without needing a border between A and B. One can even have territory disputes between A and B without a border! Only a "border conflict" is a surefire indication of the existence of a border...
Timo Saloniemi
The material on VOY suffers from a couple of well-known goofs (Talax in a wrong place, Equinox data iffy, some distances wonky), but is mostly okay. And the material on the Gamma Quadrant might be interpreted to have a tenfold scaling error... Runabouts shouldn't be able to make expeditions as long as those depicted.
However, I'd argue that there's no need for a Klingon-Cardassian border. That is, no such border is needed until the Klingons send their fleet across UFP and neutral space and conquer a few Cardassian planets in "Way of the Warrior", then hold them until the Dominion drives them out again.
All we have on Klingon-Cardassian interaction before that is a mention in "Way of the Warrior" about a 18-year conflict at Betreka Nebula, a conflict that ended some 20 years before the episode. The Star Charts assume that this nebula sat between the empires but didn't touch their borders, as apparently the Klingons didn't show any further interest in that direction of space when they attacked in "Way of the Warrior". The novel Art of the Impossible takes that idea and runs with it, suggesting Betreka Nebula was distant from both empires and worthless to both, yet became a hotbed and a costly quagmire because a single planet next to it contained historical artifacts important to both sides.
Similarly, there's no explicit evidence of a Romulan-Cardassian border. Or a Tholian-Cardassian one, or anything else for that matter... Besides the UFP-Cardassian (DMZ, the Maquis) and Breen-Cardassian (the rivalry revealed in "Return to Grace" and expanded on during the last season) ones. One can have conflict between A and B without needing a border between A and B. One can even have territory disputes between A and B without a border! Only a "border conflict" is a surefire indication of the existence of a border...
Timo Saloniemi
IMO, any map almost immediately becomes obsolete unless it's constantly updated and revised.
That being said, I tend to favor Star Trek: Star Charts. Sure, it ain't perfect and it has some notable errors here and there, but it works pretty good overall--but that kind of sums up the entirety of Trek, though, doesn't it?
That being said, I tend to favor Star Trek: Star Charts. Sure, it ain't perfect and it has some notable errors here and there, but it works pretty good overall--but that kind of sums up the entirety of Trek, though, doesn't it?
I love the warp speed calculator. Makes it easier to poke fun at the new movie!
http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/Program1.htm
http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/Program1.htm
No Trek space map will ever be canon unless they show it in an episode.
Even then it will probably be "all wrong".
The space maps all look very pretty, though.
Pauln6, remember the various writers never used a warp speed calculator. Ever. The new film isn't the first to get it "wrong". Trek ship always have and always will move at the speed of plot.
Even then it will probably be "all wrong".
The space maps all look very pretty, though.
Pauln6, remember the various writers never used a warp speed calculator. Ever. The new film isn't the first to get it "wrong". Trek ship always have and always will move at the speed of plot.
If you read the analysis on the site, the maps shown on screen contradict the dialogue and each other...
I realise that the writers never had warp calculators - in fact I think the scale was brought in try and help prevent speed of plot becoming unrealistically overbearing. I can't think of any reason why modern writers can't use the calculator, especially when using real world stars as locations. The site even has distances to some known locations listed!
I realise that the writers never had warp calculators - in fact I think the scale was brought in try and help prevent speed of plot becoming unrealistically overbearing. I can't think of any reason why modern writers can't use the calculator, especially when using real world stars as locations. The site even has distances to some known locations listed!
The Klingons and Cardassians definately don't share a border. After all, the Klingon fleet stopped off at DS9 on their way to invade Cardassia.
Well, the book was published two years before Enterprise established they were both the same.
This presents a twofold problem. For one, "real world stars" that have names familiar to us are probably all devoid of planets, as it is common for bright stars to become familiar, whereas brightness usually is a counterindication to having planets. So anybody nerdy enough to care about the locations of real stars would probably also have problems with the nature of those stars.
More importantly, familiar real stars tend to be separated by hundreds of lightyears, whereas plots typically require distances that can be spanned in a matter of days at most. If those hundreds of lightyears can be routinely covered in a day, then starships become impracticably fast for plot purposes...
Of course, "hundreds of lightyears per day" is already Trek reality, in certain episodes (mostly in TOS). It's still impracticably fast for other plots, though.
Timo Saloniemi
Yeah I guess if we can live with the Eugenics War, and 250+ warp-capable humanoid species in a 10,000 light year area, we should accept speed of plot! And yet...
Honestly, we shouldn't be so picky...
This always kind of bugged me. Why did the Klingons care so much about defending the Alpha Quadrant when they are in the Beta Quadrant?
That's a bit like saying "Why did England care so much about Germany, which was in the eastern hemisphere, when England itself lies mostly in the western hemisphere?"...
...At least if we accept the relative positions of the empires in Star Charts. Other positions are also possible without contradicting canon. But the Klingon and Romulan empires have always been described as "caring a lot" about the UFP - so whatever affects the UFP should probably affect those empires, too.
Timo Saloniemi
...At least if we accept the relative positions of the empires in Star Charts. Other positions are also possible without contradicting canon. But the Klingon and Romulan empires have always been described as "caring a lot" about the UFP - so whatever affects the UFP should probably affect those empires, too.
Timo Saloniemi
Yeah, that makes sense. But I think the Klingons said "protect the alpha quadrant" too many times. I don't think I heard them say anything about protecting the beta quadrant in the either series. Oh, and isn't Earth in the Beta Quadrant?
The reason I brought this up the most is, if you compare the maps, you will see that Betazed, The Briar Patch, and The Talos Star Group, are in way different positions. Either their north south position is different or they are even in different quadrants.
I am making those systems as addons for the space sim Celestia and can't decide which map to go by to place those fictional stars.
Thanks,
Tim
I am making those systems as addons for the space sim Celestia and can't decide which map to go by to place those fictional stars.
Thanks,
Tim
Similar threads
- Poll
