Reliant was looking for a planet with specific characteristics. Wouldn't you scan each.planet in depth, and compare it to the previous data to determine reliability of the scans?
Mapping the galaxy
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SPOCK: It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in a hundred years and to learn what crop has sprung from the seed you planted today.
KIRK: Yes, Mister Spock, it would indeed.
Doesn't really sound like they're planning to keep an eye on things.
Well, yes, but who would be looking that far? I typed "hundreds OR thousands" twice... This is what would be involved in the Argus Array spying on Cardassians or being used by Cardassians to spy on Mars, etc. And in terms of currently favored Trek map setups, mere hundreds of ly would probably suffice nicely.
All surveying across greater ranges is credited to probes or starships.
So as not to waste time, you'd only scan those planets you thought matched your criteria (in this case, Ceti Alpha V, even if the records said that the local desert world was named CA VI), and you'd trust your scans. If the records could be trusted, there'd be no reason to scan, and indeed no reason to send the Reliant. Yet with the Reliant sent, anything that panned out in scans would be good, regardless of any records.
As for "in depth", we don't know what the Genesis test called for exactly. Probably not just a dead rock, or else Regula herself would have sufficed. CA V was different from Regula in having a breathable atmosphere, something that must be extra rare on dead worlds; perhaps the project needed a rare fallow Class M planet? Orbital specs wouldn't matter, then, only the specs regarding planetary classification.
OTOH, perhaps the Marcuses wanted to solve those interstellar famine issues by creating farming worlds right next to inhabited planets? They'd need something like CA V, then: a planet deep in local Goldilocks so that the logistics of moving the grain and vegetables to the needy would be simplified. And in Trek, stuff within Goldilocks would tend to teem with life, frustrating Terrell's team until they hit Ceti Alpha.
Either way, scans would only need to be skin deep, detailing the biosphere (that is, the absence thereof); everything else would be subject to big error bars so that the experiment could be repeated operationally in a host of other star systems, those in actual need. More careful scanning might take place once the experiment was actually performed, to carefully record before/during/after for posterity.
Timo Saloniemi
Sounds like a typical open ended Trek ending to me.
Yet with heavy and explicit emphasis on these two not having any plans on visiting Khan, or anybody else realistically being expected to go and then inform our heroes - at least not within the next century. It really isn't possible to read this any other way.
Sure, something might have gone unsaid: our characters do lie every now and then. And they'd surely lie more within earshot of Khan than without. But this particular piece isn't for Khan's ears or official records or anything.
Timo Saloniemi
Sure, something might have gone unsaid: our characters do lie every now and then. And they'd surely lie more within earshot of Khan than without. But this particular piece isn't for Khan's ears or official records or anything.
Timo Saloniemi
Partially disagree. You Need to map out all the major and some minor bodies in terms of orbits to insure long term stability for the biosphere you are creating.
My take is the Reliant was checking all the supposed life-less bodies to be sure they were really lifeless (not even a microbe). They had not found one yet and this one looked good. Just that they were on such a quest indicates that the original surveys were not that detailed. Most of the Enterprise adventures involve encountering new life, colonies, distress signals, or other signs of life. It is clear that they are visiting previously surveyed systems. Spock's Brain takes them to a system that has been surveyed in some detail. But the amount of detail could have been gathered in basic survey. But the nature of Reliant's mission indicates that detailed surveys are not that common and most systems have just had a basic survey or they would be able to look at all the planets and get a list of ones that don't have so much as a microbe. Instead they are conduction a survey of these planets that are likely candidates to find out if they check out and most have not. They are excited that this one appears to be perfect until they locate the survivors.
If it had checked out, Reliant would have made a complete survey, likely of the entire system, and gathered the necessary details of the planet's orbit and neighbors, etc.
If it had checked out, Reliant would have made a complete survey, likely of the entire system, and gathered the necessary details of the planet's orbit and neighbors, etc.
This presupposes there is a long term need. Most colonies and the like might be expected to cease to be within a century or two, or to gain the means to protect themselves from trivialities such as wayward asteroids.
Here, though, Genesis might have no use after the initial experiment, and would actually benefit from being uninhabitable and useless and therefore not a nuisance when it comes to galactic logistics and politics. For all we know, Starfleet would have used it for target practice anyway, firing Genesis torp after Genesis torp into it to see what happens after n mutations.
Timo Saloniemi
I would think one would want to see how stable the ecosystem is over years to decades
However, if you are going to destroy the surface or planet within days to weeks, I could buy your argument,Timo.
However, if you are going to destroy the surface or planet within days to weeks, I could buy your argument,Timo.
Sort of off topic, but where is the SS Botany Bay space vessel? Last seen in the episode, it was just cast off after towing some distance at Warp 2 toward Starbase 12. It's recovery would make a great museum piece, but then again, there's that little problem of its history and direct connection back to Khan stranded on the planet...
The containers on Ceti Alpha 5 are not part of the Botany Bay, rather Starfleet cargo containers from the TOS Enterprise which suggests that Kirk did not go back to hide/destroy the Botany Bay. Based on the size and shape of the cargo container, it looks like it might fit through the darker gray rectangle hatch on the bottom of the Enterprise...
The containers on Ceti Alpha 5 are not part of the Botany Bay, rather Starfleet cargo containers from the TOS Enterprise which suggests that Kirk did not go back to hide/destroy the Botany Bay. Based on the size and shape of the cargo container, it looks like it might fit through the darker gray rectangle hatch on the bottom of the Enterprise...
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I wonder if we're supposed to squint and accept the containers as identical to the TMP ones, or admit that they are the right shape but bigger. Interior view need not be decisive - Khan could have built a foundation and kicked out the floor to increase interior height, say.
Finding the Botany Bay in the first place appeared predicated on her sending the CQ signal. For the first two centuries or so of her voyage, she had remained unseen in a zone that Earth of the time was supposedly showing an interest in, before moving farther out. The CQ might have been triggered by the cryochamber failures (even if one'd expect a SOS in that case), or then by proximity (in which case it would probably be part of Khan's longterm plan of capturing an advanced spacecraft some time in the future, by luring it in, and there would have been no activation before the date when victim ships become "advanced" and their crews no longer remember who Khan is).
Without the signal, can even Kirk find the derelict again? The ship wasn't under his control when the tractor beam was severed: Khan might have sent his old ship tumbling in an unexpected direction, and finding her by pointing sensors in the dark might be futile...
Timo Saloniemi
Finding the Botany Bay in the first place appeared predicated on her sending the CQ signal. For the first two centuries or so of her voyage, she had remained unseen in a zone that Earth of the time was supposedly showing an interest in, before moving farther out. The CQ might have been triggered by the cryochamber failures (even if one'd expect a SOS in that case), or then by proximity (in which case it would probably be part of Khan's longterm plan of capturing an advanced spacecraft some time in the future, by luring it in, and there would have been no activation before the date when victim ships become "advanced" and their crews no longer remember who Khan is).
Without the signal, can even Kirk find the derelict again? The ship wasn't under his control when the tractor beam was severed: Khan might have sent his old ship tumbling in an unexpected direction, and finding her by pointing sensors in the dark might be futile...
Timo Saloniemi
With no beacon, the Botany Bay would be difficult to find. With enough effort it could be done assuming enough sensor data existed before it was released.
There would be information in the Enterprise records to find the exact spot and velocity or the Enterprise when the Botany Bay was release. From that information Spock could find it quite easily.
And structures on the surface were not standard Starfleet. Or where did the Botany Bay buckle come from. They appear to have been Botany Bay cargo containers, likely with the cargo they had packed 270 earlier on Earth.
And structures on the surface were not standard Starfleet. Or where did the Botany Bay buckle come from. They appear to have been Botany Bay cargo containers, likely with the cargo they had packed 270 earlier on Earth.
Assuming such information would be recorded in the first place, which is unlikely considering how easily the heroes themselves get lost. "Detailed records" are a total waste of time in the usual case, which today is slightly dependent on how much memory one can cram into a system (not a lot), but tomorrow might depend more on nobody really having an interest in wading through it, even with the help of automation. Kirk doesn't even believe in recording CCTV; his ship would be unlikely to remember her previous thruster firings beyond a certain writeover time, in the style of today's flight recorders.
Form the Botany Bay, supposedly. Why would those two issues be related? Khan wasn't standard Starfleet yet wore the red shirt anyway.
Two things make that doubtful. Would the shape remain identical from the 1990s till TMP? And why would Khan have cargo relating to the colonization of a planet? He never planned for such a thing, it seems - he is mightily surprised when Kirk forces him to attempt it at the end of "Space Seed".
Timo Saloniemi
The cargo containers look nothing like what we see in Star Trek the motion picture. They look nothing like anything we've seen in the original series. They're more likely something that was stowed aboard Botany Bay than aboard Enterprise. And it would be very stupid to set out on a sleeper ship into the unknown without equipment on board to get started on a new planet if they found one. They had to have been on some sort of course. What they intended to find when they go there we don't know, but assuming that they were deposited on Ceti Alpha V with Enterprise supplies is rather strange. Nothing on board those containers looks 23rd century. There are books and other items that are distinctly 20th century. Too valuable to 23rd century people to send with castaways. But likely things that Khan would have packed when he left Earth. And the cargo pods of the Botany Bay were certainly large enough to contain what we see in TWOK. Among them the complete works of Shakespeare, Moby Dick, Paradise Lost, a separate volume of King Lear, and those are only the title you can make out.
And I think Spock would be able to back track and figure out where they dropped off the Botany Bay and where it had drifted from there. He figured out harder problems many times on screen. So I see no reason why the location of the Botany Bay or retrieving its cargo would pose any problem.
I presume that the personal items (including books and BB buckle collector items) from the Botany Bay were transported onto the Enterprise by Khan and his crew before he discarded the Botany Bay. After all, the Enterprise was to become their new home...The inside of the cargo container was labeled as "Starfleet", hence, not from the Botany Bay (pre-Starfleet).
https://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch3/twok0142.jpg (label seen under Khan's right arm).
https://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch3/twok0142.jpg (label seen under Khan's right arm).
Hmh? They are identical, save for the size which was altered to make for better huts. It's just that since they're mostly shot from the inside, this may not be obvious from the first glance. But from the outside, they are part of a TMP-style cargo train, wth the towing spine and even the adapter for the workbee still attached.
Which reinforces the idea that they can't come from Khan's own bays. The rather unique shape would be unlikely to be found in a random other context, such as 1990s Earth, unless Starfleet in the 2270s went retro for the sake of going retro, after doing something else altogether during the 2260s.
Now that depends on who launched the ship and why. And we still don't know either of the answers.
Khan woke up after two centuries of sleep and closer to three centuries of travel. Was that anywhere near like his intent? Or was he headed for Jupiter's moons (another trip that back then called for cryosleep) in order to conquer those and overslept? Or was he aiming at a planet 500 years away and was rudely interrupted?
The last sounds the least likely of them all. Why would Khan want to go to a faraway planet? Why would he be surprised when the idea of taming one was suggested to him?
Not really. Kirk decided on the depositing. Kirk had the means to do so. Why wouldn't he use those means through and through?
Giving Khan his own stuff would be like letting a prisoner retain his personal phone and knife and set of lockpicks...
Well, nothing in TOS did.
Books might plausibly be of value for Khan, so he could take a bundle when abandoning his old ship, bound with a genuine Botany Bay cargo strap. Otherwise, he'd travel light, as seen.
Nothing material is of value for Kirk, who declares precious jewels "worthless baubles that can be manufactured at will". So a superman is short on Shakespeare? Print him fifty voumes, so that he can burn 47 for warmth and use two for toilet paper.
Surely it would be a "problem", even if a solvable one. I just can't see the point of making the effort. Except perhaps to blow up the ship for good, so that the eighty Napoleons could be hidden from the future forever.
But, well, wasted effort. Finding the ship with her transponder shut down should be impossible now, for anybody but Spock, and Spock isn't interested in collecting Khanalia. He doesn't worship the superman, and even openly expresses the sentiment that in a hundred years, he can't really be bothered to come back and have a look at how things are going.
Timo Saloniemi
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Um... that labeled panel is a door and looks like the top of a box. It is not part of the container. And there are at least 2 separate containers. When you see through the door they cut between them, the two floors are not level.
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