Hasn't Superman kind of been a dick for most of his history though?
MAN OF STEEL: Another look
- Thread starter david g
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Hasn't Superman kind of been a dick for most of his history though?
I consciously made of point in my very first viewing of Man of Steel to compare it to past versions at different points, ie: Krypton origin, Smallville, villain, etc. At almost each point I felt the new version was better, with some problems over Pa Kent. In two cases, the movie won me over on things I had reservations about: another origin story and ZOD being re-used as a villain.
I felt Krypton's history was more elaborate and explained. I thought Clark Kent's time at home and wandering was more believable. I found Lois Lane searching for the Superman and knowing who he was was better than the fact that Lois never knew anywhere except in Superman II and that was rebooted by the end. The Kryptonians on Earth seemed more powerful and had a better back story. Zod was not simply a mustache twirling bad guy(albeit memorably performed by Terrance Stamp)!! I felt the titanic hand-to-hand battle and humans vs Kryptonians had a lot more relevance than the similar titanic battle from Superman II. I thought Superman himself looked better than ever and seemed more believably powerful. Production-wise, it's the best looking of any Superman movie. There was a real attempt to make Krypton look like an alien civilization.
RAMA
I felt Krypton's history was more elaborate and explained. I thought Clark Kent's time at home and wandering was more believable. I found Lois Lane searching for the Superman and knowing who he was was better than the fact that Lois never knew anywhere except in Superman II and that was rebooted by the end. The Kryptonians on Earth seemed more powerful and had a better back story. Zod was not simply a mustache twirling bad guy(albeit memorably performed by Terrance Stamp)!! I felt the titanic hand-to-hand battle and humans vs Kryptonians had a lot more relevance than the similar titanic battle from Superman II. I thought Superman himself looked better than ever and seemed more believably powerful. Production-wise, it's the best looking of any Superman movie. There was a real attempt to make Krypton look like an alien civilization.
RAMA
I cannot speak for 'most' of his history, as my exposure to him is limited to the classic TV series, many of the cartoon shorts and the film series but apparently those don't tell the whole story...
5 Classic Superman comics that prove he used to be a dick.
So yeah, early on he did exhibit dickish behavior and since MoS is a reboot I'd say the producers are within their rights to revisit those 'rougher around the edges' character traits if they want to without being out of bounds.
Thats just his 1930s dickery, he was still a dick in the 60s. Just look up super dickery.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP9Ag5aoE6I[/yt]
But come on, those must be isolated incidents... perhaps times he's been driven mad by something his enemies have cooked up, right?
But come on, those must be isolated incidents... perhaps times he's been driven mad by something his enemies have cooked up, right?
I don't think I could bring myself to watch Man of Steel a second time. I don't want to say it's the worst sci-fi/fantasy film that I've seen this decade, but nothing else is coming to mind. Okay, Starcrash was worse, but in a fun way.
Man of Steel was a soulless, loud, cold, and insultingly stupid film. I truly hated this movie.
Man of Steel was a soulless, loud, cold, and insultingly stupid film. I truly hated this movie.
I was hoping it would be Superman's version of "Batman Begins" (A decent drama with extremely good secondary action scenes)
Instead, it ended up being an extremely over the top action movie, with pretty mediocre drama scenes.
Most of the super dickery examples are from the Silver Age where there was a marketing strategy of covers that had Superman acting in a bizarre or mean fashion to draw a "what the fuck?" or (more appropriately for the time) "gee whiz, what's going on?" reaction from readers so they'd buy the comic to find out. The story itself usually had Superman temporarily under the control of some form of Kryptonite, mind control, or whatever, or acting out a ruse to foil the bad guys, which explained the behavior or situation shown on the cover. As such, the super dickery meme is misleading and overstated.
Rare agreement with Dennis
I think some people aren't quite getting where the humor of "Superdickery" comes from. The joke isn't "Hahahaha Superman is a jerk and always has been". The joke is "Hahahaha Superman doesn't act the way that these out-of-context images from a simpler time imply".
I'm an old-school, hardcore Superman fan who loves the character BECAUSE of his corn-fed, aww-shucks, dyed-in-the-wool goodness and not in spite of it. MOS doesn't wear that on it's sleeve the way the Donner film (one of my favorite movies of all time) did, but I still think it's there. Superman has been an internationally beloved character for over 70 years, and Snyder is smart enough to know that the audience knows certain things about the character (like his no-kill policy) without needing to have it spelled out. I think it's a mistake to think that just because MOS doesn't state something explicitly that it's not there.
I'm an old-school, hardcore Superman fan who loves the character BECAUSE of his corn-fed, aww-shucks, dyed-in-the-wool goodness and not in spite of it. MOS doesn't wear that on it's sleeve the way the Donner film (one of my favorite movies of all time) did, but I still think it's there. Superman has been an internationally beloved character for over 70 years, and Snyder is smart enough to know that the audience knows certain things about the character (like his no-kill policy) without needing to have it spelled out. I think it's a mistake to think that just because MOS doesn't state something explicitly that it's not there.
I thought that Donner was better at this. He knew the boy-scoutish nature oof the character, and that the audience knew the character outside the context of the film, and he wanted to honor the character and poke fun at him a little. The movie-going public all knew that Clark would often use a phone booth to change into Superman, and the film took a great deal of wit to be able, after about an hour of dramatic build up, to make fun of this trait, as when Clark scans a nearby pay phone and realizes that he can't use it to change. Very funny. Also, Lex Luthor got a few witty shots off at Superman's naivete that began funny and lately were more and more pointed.
To me, Goyer's script was almost without humor, wit, or levity, or without the good nature or spirit of the character.
To me, Goyer's script was almost without humor, wit, or levity, or without the good nature or spirit of the character.
I remember liking MOS when I saw it but being slightly disappointed in it. I've been a Superman fan my whole life and I still had that romanticized image in my head and all the silliness from the Gold and Silver Ages. But I watched it again the other night, and like the original poster, I found that I really had come to appreciate it more. It is dark and gritty but Superman is still the same character that I've loved all these years. He faced certain death with the Kryptonians, the world engine etc but he never really felt fear until he came to the realization that the only way to stop Zod was to kill him.
I also felt the action scenes were very well done. They didn't go on too long and you got a more realistic impact of a super fight as far as the damage caused. I'm definitely looking forward to the next film.
I also felt the action scenes were very well done. They didn't go on too long and you got a more realistic impact of a super fight as far as the damage caused. I'm definitely looking forward to the next film.
^I can't completely disagree with that assesment because, as I stated, the original Donner film is one of my favorite movies of all time. You'll get no argument from me on the merits of that film. Donner, Reeve and everyone else involved absolutely nailed everything that is wonderful about Superman. I just don't think MOS is as shallow as a lot of people seem to think.
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I started reading Superman comics from the mid-1950s on (the first few years were passed on to me by the traditional older-kid's-mom-getting-rid-of-boxes-of-comics method). And Supes actually was pretty much like that some of the time; his treatment of Lois Lane was appalling well into the 1970s. I particularly remember him having one of his robots spank her to "teach her a lesson" about snooping around the Fortress.
The only way to do Superman with a tone along the lines of the Donner film now would be to do an animated movie with the lightness of tone and humor of something like The Incredibles. You're not going to get droves of people to line up to watch human beings act like that.
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Absolutely Right!
Highly enjoyable movie that gets better the more I watch it. Just last Friday I had a date with a bottle of red wine and MOS. Cavill blew my expectations out of the water as I really only knew him as the wishy washy Duke from the Tudors. I don't think he could have done a better job - to me that is Superman. All the acting was solid really and the effects were excellent. Seeing life on Krypton, however brief, was huge as well. The plot worked for me.
Also loved Zimmer's music, and the nice little Chris Cornell touch.
Also loved Zimmer's music, and the nice little Chris Cornell touch.