Macet the only Carddy w/facial hair
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Well, the books have the two of them as cousins.
About his personality and mannerisms...I actually think he was VERY different from Dukat.
Macet struck me as more of a soldier than a megalomaniac like Dukat. Even his body language shows it...it's not grandstanding/demagoguing body language like Dukat, but a more direct sort of way of carrying oneself. Dukat parades--Macet marches. Overall, Macet exhibits far more self-control than Dukat, even to the point of removing himself from the bridge when he knows he's about to (IMHO VERY justifiably) lose his temper at Picard for the dumbass things he had just done. (I mean, Warp 4 when lives are at stake, and just WATCHING it onscreen? What the FRAK, Picard? WHAT! THE! FRAK?!?!)
Listen to Macet's voice, too. Dukat proclaims everything...Macet speaks in a much lower voice most of the time, and actually seems to get the quietest when he's rattled rather than having a royal meltdown the way Dukat would. (Most telling is the way Macet reacts when all those Cardassians die and the Enterprise doesn't get there quickly enough.)
His mannerisms also suggest (to me) a somewhat more introverted personality than Dukat. Every move and gesture is not a constant nonverbal claim of territory (a declaration of intent, yes...like I said, he has the directness of a soldier to his nonverbal cues, but not grandstanding), and he is not always cutting people off or speaking really loudly. And he is the sort of person who listens and thinks before speaking. Even if he concludes he doesn't agree with you, at least he listened.
As for the facial hair...I realize that IRL the cause is that Cardassian makeup changed, but in my own story I explain it by saying that only a small ethnic minority on Cardassia are capable of growing facial hair, which gives Macet a mixed heritage, in my own continuity. (And that, as you can imagine, put additional animosity between him and Dukat, because you can just imagine the jackass things Dukat would've said.)
Agree with Nerys Ghemor and added to that he seems to have more integrity than Dukat... well more sain integrity, when one can say it like that? Not just compared to the after Ziyals death Dukat, but also before that. A more sane aproach of justice, right and wrong and such too.
He also seemed somewhat stricter with his Glinns, than Dukat...not that Dukat was not strict, but in a different way somehow.
TerokNor
He also seemed somewhat stricter with his Glinns, than Dukat...not that Dukat was not strict, but in a different way somehow.
TerokNor
way different uniforms too, didn't like em The Wounded but still oh so different
Well, Telle deserved it, that's for sure. On the other hand, Macet had no problem letting Daro socialize with aliens, so I would say that his discipline was more reasonable than I think Dukat's was.
As for integrity...I do think Macet got stuck with some bad orders. He knew that Central Command was building up weapons, yet he couldn't say anything...and he still didn't want a war. The fact that Macet doesn't argue with Picard at the end (despite the "you Cardassians don't know what loyalty is like we humans" lecture) is pretty telling. He could have denied it, but his silence (to me) kind of says that he knows and isn't too thrilled with it.
Yeah, there are the uniforms. I try to forget them. Oh so unflattering...
Reasonable is a good word, yes. I think he had sort of a clear military diszipline in service to Cardassia, while Dukat had also a military diszipline but twisted and to serve his own wishes.
However would Dukat have a problem with letting his Glinns socialize with aliens?
Would Damar had been able to speak with Macet like he did with Dukat?
Hmm, and you think Macet would have been later on one of the Guls that deserted with Damar and fought with the rebellion against the Dominion?
TerokNor
However would Dukat have a problem with letting his Glinns socialize with aliens?
Would Damar had been able to speak with Macet like he did with Dukat?
Hmm, and you think Macet would have been later on one of the Guls that deserted with Damar and fought with the rebellion against the Dominion?
TerokNor
Yes he did and the Targer makes an appearance in the DS9 relaunch novels in a heavily damaged state due to her actions during the Rebellion. Plus Macet becomes the de facto head of the remnants of the Central Command mostly as a result of his sterling service to the CLF and his leadership skills.
(that and being one of the few Guls left
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(that and being one of the few Guls left
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Given Dukat's deplorable racial attitudes, I think it is entirely possible. That is, except for activities that degrade other species.
I suspect Damar would have had much more opportunity to develop as an officer and a person under Macet. Rather than encouraging blind worship, I think Macet would have encouraged Damar to become stronger as a person, maybe even tried to get him ready for command.
The DS9 relaunch novels say that he did, and I adopted that for my own work, too.
Ah, thanks for the information Thor Damar and Nerys Ghemor. It fits Macet well to be part of the rebellion.
Dukat/Aliens: But on DS9 also under dominion occupation where aliens... and Damar for example (well he is the only Glinn we see Dukat with..so he is the only example) socializes with Quark.. and we don´t see Dukat minding that.
Macet/Damar: But would he have worshiped him like he did Dukat? Macet did not seem as manipulative as Dukat either.
And one thing..not about Macet, but Madred .. was he an orphan, you think?
TerokNor
Dukat/Aliens: But on DS9 also under dominion occupation where aliens... and Damar for example (well he is the only Glinn we see Dukat with..so he is the only example) socializes with Quark.. and we don´t see Dukat minding that.
Macet/Damar: But would he have worshiped him like he did Dukat? Macet did not seem as manipulative as Dukat either.
And one thing..not about Macet, but Madred .. was he an orphan, you think?
TerokNor
^Its strongly hinted that he was. However the only source for this is Madred himself and he could have been lying to Picard. Plus in AJR's A snitch in time the not so good Gul lives in what was Cardassia's most high income areas and seems to have come from one of the old wealthy families of the Union.
Also I doubt that Lakrain City would not have the facilities to care for orphans.
Whatever his origins Madred was a complete psychopath who represented all that was wrong with the Cardassian military. Thank Oralius for Macet.
Also I doubt that Lakrain City would not have the facilities to care for orphans.
Whatever his origins Madred was a complete psychopath who represented all that was wrong with the Cardassian military. Thank Oralius for Macet.
There's a difference between using someone for their services and actually speaking to them as an equal...I think if it crossed the line into the latter, Dukat would've had a problem.
I doubt Damar would've worshiped Macet. Rather, I think they would have developed a more mature working relationship and possibly even friendship over time. Whatever it was that Damar and Dukat had, it sure wasn't friendship.
Damar did that to a certain amount with telling Quark what he should not tell him, but of course Dukat did not know that.
Well maybe Dukat would have it seen as a danger...not just if his Glinn would talk to aliens as equals, also with other Cardassians, cause then his position as the center of the universe so to say could have been destroyed. If you bond someone to you and have him have no other bonds the bond surly makes the other more depending on the other.
Guess that what one could call what Damar and Dukat had..dependency... or not? Damar needed Dukat to have someone to look up too, to admire, to get positive attention/ praise from, to trust and be loyal too and to have something "stable" in uncertain times. Dukat needed someone who would admire him no matter what and who would do whatever he asked. And even when Damar is leader of cardassia Dukat has a certain power over him, as he still gets Damars help with one reproachfully spoken "Damar". Or what other term could that be called?
With Macet Damar would not have found the rebell in himself I suppose... as he needed to be desperate for that... and desperation came with Dukat and his actions.
In the Madred episode, it did not sound like a lie, when he told Picard of his childhood...and it would explain his behaviour as well...on the other hand, would an orphan on Cardassia manage to become a gul?
TerokNor
Well maybe Dukat would have it seen as a danger...not just if his Glinn would talk to aliens as equals, also with other Cardassians, cause then his position as the center of the universe so to say could have been destroyed. If you bond someone to you and have him have no other bonds the bond surly makes the other more depending on the other.
Guess that what one could call what Damar and Dukat had..dependency... or not? Damar needed Dukat to have someone to look up too, to admire, to get positive attention/ praise from, to trust and be loyal too and to have something "stable" in uncertain times. Dukat needed someone who would admire him no matter what and who would do whatever he asked. And even when Damar is leader of cardassia Dukat has a certain power over him, as he still gets Damars help with one reproachfully spoken "Damar". Or what other term could that be called?
With Macet Damar would not have found the rebell in himself I suppose... as he needed to be desperate for that... and desperation came with Dukat and his actions.
In the Madred episode, it did not sound like a lie, when he told Picard of his childhood...and it would explain his behaviour as well...on the other hand, would an orphan on Cardassia manage to become a gul?
TerokNor
I wouldn't say Damar would be barred from becoming a rebel under Macet. If Macet himself is unorthodox in any way, then no doubt he would find a kindred spirit in Damar. 
Under the Occupation of Bajor, Dukat made a great show of being a "friendly boss" to Quark (Necessary Evil) And obviously, his soldiers were spending a lot of time at Quark's, and they had to have talked to Quark at least or his employees.
Prefect Dukat himself would probably have said that he had nothing against other species... as long as they were serving the needs of Cardassians. The obviously superior Cardassians....
This.
Um, apart from it being, as we all know, not canon, it's also written 100% from the POV of a notorious and self-confessed liar. It's the very definition of 'unreliable narrator' and I wouldn't take anything in it for granted (apart from the state of Cardassia after the Dominion war and his feelings on the matter) - ESPECIALLY not his accounts of other Cardassian figures.
Madred had no reason to lie to Picard. Why would he? And it was obvious that it was meant to be the truth in the episode - there is no other reason why it would even be in the episode, it was obviously meant to give Madred's character background and psychological explanation. And Madred was obviously dismayed when Picard told him near the end that he (Madred) was a sorry, pathetic man still trapped in his unhappy childhood.
