Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series
- Thread starter Cyrus
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He was? He openly rode against them and saved Frodo from the morgul blade, getting him to Imladris in time for Elrond to heal him.
Númenor is based on the Atlantis myth, so clothing from classical antiquity would be appropriate. Granted they would probably be Greek not Roman. Tolkien also drew some very specific pictures of what people, places, and things in Middle-earth looked like, so hopefully they will try to follow that.
And the female dwarf is inaccurate: she doesn't have a beard.
Who cares? It wouldn't be the first "inaccurate" depiction of a character in adaptions of Tolkien's work.
Her character design is very interesting, imo.
Tolkien buffs in a thread concerning Tolkien's brainchild?
It's just ridiculous that this series gets slammed for things like "OMGZ the female dwarves have no beards! (especially when Tolkien changed his mind on that almost constantly and it is never explicitly said in anything that he published during his lifetime or the Silmarillion)
But the old movies get a free pass for everything they changed (which was a lot!)
It's an adaption, they're gonna change things. Gotta live with that.
It's just ridiculous that this series gets slammed for things like "OMGZ the female dwarves have no beards! (especially when Tolkien changed his mind on that almost constantly and it is never explicitly said in anything that he published during his lifetime or the Silmarillion)
But the old movies get a free pass for everything they changed (which was a lot!)
It's an adaption, they're gonna change things. Gotta live with that.
Yep. People fawn over Jackson’s films even though he changed a lot and added unnecessary bullshit like the Warg chase and Aragorn “death” takeout.
Angsty, self doubting Aragorn and changing Faramir from the one human to resist the power of the Ring to a guy with daddy issues are the two changes that grate on me the most. There’s a whole host of others, but I enjoy the way he brought the world to life so I just push past them as best I can.
Exactly, among many other things. I was particularly not fond of Hugo Weaving's Elrond, who just seemed to mug and be annoyed all the time.
Plus he looked too old for an Elf (as does that one actor in the posters of this show, really. And nobody complains about that...but a dwarf woman without a beard, oh that's suddenly "inaccurate")
Though of course quite a few of the castings were good, Cate Blanchett was very well cast as Galadriel, though I think they ruined her big scene with that unnecessary GCI, imo.
I'm also not against all changes, I for one think they should have kept the plot-line of Arwen leading the Elf Army at Helm's Deep. Film!Arwen was already established as a bit of an action-girl (something that is not against canon for an Elf woman) and it would have made for a pretty strong scene to have Aragon and Arwen fight side-by-side.(even though that was a very "inaccurate" change to have the Elves there at all...any "Tolkien Buff" would surely know how exceedingly unlikely it should be for the Elves to take up swords to defend Rohan of all places, let alone liken that to a renewal of the Last Alliance...really if they wanted to inlcude an Elf army it would have made more sense for the defence of Minas Tirith or the battle at the Black Gate not freaking Rohan)
But in general it just annoys me when people act like Peter Jackson's adaption is some sort of "definitive" version of Middle Earth when...no it isn't. It's just an adaption, just like this one will be or that Bakshi one was.
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The Silmarillion makes it really obvious when it's called Atalante.
Well, I’m in - boots n all - with The Rings of Power!
Don’t mind either if I come across as gushing: it worth the besmirching of my rep, if that’s the case!
Don’t mind either if I come across as gushing: it worth the besmirching of my rep, if that’s the case!
I actually sort of agree with you that they should have continued their portrayal of Arwen as a strong and capable warrior, but instead of leading the contingent of Elves to Helm's Deep (I was fine with that being Haldir) I think it would have been better if Arwen had been the one to deliver Andúril to Aragorn in ROTK, rather than Elrond, and journeyed with him, Legolas and Gimli through the Paths of the Dead. Not only would that have given Arwen a bigger role in the story and more agency (I really hated that "Arwen will die if the Ring is not destroyed!" subplot) but it would have been an oblique reference to the Grey Company, which included Arwen's brothers Elladan and Elrohir.
I admit I initially didn't like Arwen's role in Fellowship but I've grown to appreciate, even love it over the years, but agree that the rest of her storyline in the trilogy is awful.
I had previously thought that she should've been the one to delivery Andúril, but I never thought of the idea of her going with the trio through the Paths of the Dead as a reference to the Grey Company.
A pity PJ and company didn't think of that.
I personally was quite sad that Elladan and Elrohir did it just not feature in the trilogy. I found the Paths of the Dead a little less enjoyable with it just being the three. Elrond's delivering of Anduril was well done, but I think having Arwen have a larger part would have been nice.
Also, missed the Prince of Dol Amroth. Adaptations always have favorite things cut from them, and Lord of the Rings is no exception. Doesn't take away anything from the books, the world, Tolkien, his legacy, or anything else. The only thing that adaptations do is allow people who might not otherwise engage with the work or the author.
Also, missed the Prince of Dol Amroth. Adaptations always have favorite things cut from them, and Lord of the Rings is no exception. Doesn't take away anything from the books, the world, Tolkien, his legacy, or anything else. The only thing that adaptations do is allow people who might not otherwise engage with the work or the author.
I'm sure many of us have wondered about what the effect of Arwen being at Helm's Deep for subsequent events. Here's my guess.
One of the weirdly disturbing things about Haldir and the Elves at Helm's Deep, for me, is that they get completely wiped out. There are no survivors. I suspect this is because 1) they were added in the reshoots that took place when Jackson decided to cut the "Arwen at Helm's Deep" experiment short and 2) footage after that had already been shot. Which also suggests to me that Arwen didn't do things like walk the Paths of the Dead or ride with the Rohirrim in the scripts. So, where did she go?
There are a couple of frames in The Two Towers of Arwen at Helm's Deep. She's one of the riders that charge out of the gate and down the ramp into the Orc army. (Specifically, she's on the white horse.) She's blurry and distant and not easily seen, so Jackson left that in rather than reshoot that as well. (Similar to how there are a couple of shots in Back to the Future where Eric Stoltz is still playing Marty in the mall parking lot.)
I think Arwen would have been injured in the charge out of the gate. Later, when Elrond arrives with Anduril, Flame of the West, he and Aragorn make a swap -- Arwen for the sword -- and Aragorn assumes that Arwen went to the Grey Havens to heal in Valinor, as her mother did after her experience with Orcs earlier in the Third Age, and he will never see her again. Of course, then he does at his coronation.
That's probably how it would have gone. Because I can't see a way of fitting Arwen into Aragorn's story in Return of the King that doesn't deform the story.
One of the weirdly disturbing things about Haldir and the Elves at Helm's Deep, for me, is that they get completely wiped out. There are no survivors. I suspect this is because 1) they were added in the reshoots that took place when Jackson decided to cut the "Arwen at Helm's Deep" experiment short and 2) footage after that had already been shot. Which also suggests to me that Arwen didn't do things like walk the Paths of the Dead or ride with the Rohirrim in the scripts. So, where did she go?
There are a couple of frames in The Two Towers of Arwen at Helm's Deep. She's one of the riders that charge out of the gate and down the ramp into the Orc army. (Specifically, she's on the white horse.) She's blurry and distant and not easily seen, so Jackson left that in rather than reshoot that as well. (Similar to how there are a couple of shots in Back to the Future where Eric Stoltz is still playing Marty in the mall parking lot.)
I think Arwen would have been injured in the charge out of the gate. Later, when Elrond arrives with Anduril, Flame of the West, he and Aragorn make a swap -- Arwen for the sword -- and Aragorn assumes that Arwen went to the Grey Havens to heal in Valinor, as her mother did after her experience with Orcs earlier in the Third Age, and he will never see her again. Of course, then he does at his coronation.
That's probably how it would have gone. Because I can't see a way of fitting Arwen into Aragorn's story in Return of the King that doesn't deform the story.
Damn. I didn't know about either of those! I'll have to keep my eyes out those bits the next time I watch.
I think that would have given a little more weight to Elrond's worry over his daughter and efforts to get her to return to Valinor.
I believe in the hero shot of the group coming down the ramp, she's replaced by a second Legolas(?!)
But you can see her in the background shots during the closeups on Aragorn after Gandalf and Éomer arrive.
Clearly that's the Legalos who was at the Fall of Gandolin!
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