Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[fireproof78]

If you approach an adaptation with the mindset that it * has * to be like its source material, you've automatically set yourself up for instant disappointment because the entire point of adapting something is to change the source material in some way.

That is indeed the mindset. Perhaps even the nerd mindset, to borrow a phrase from another thread.

I use to labor under such a mindset. I use to subscribe to. I use to loathe Starship Trooper's the movie. I hated the Baby Blues series and I couldn't stand Ben Hur. But, then I realized that I was just making myself miserable by being angry, rather than trying something new. Lord of the Rings introduced that to me, and I am grateful, extremely so, to the Jackson films for giving me the opportunity to learn what adaptation is all about.

Also, on a related note, there were African people in Britain during the Roman Empire. So, the possibility exists for Black people in Middle Earth moving around.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

And that's where the problem lies.
If you approach an adaptation with the mindset that it * has * to be like its source material, you've automatically set yourself up for instant disappointment because the entire point of adapting something is to change the source material in some way.

That is indeed the mindset. Perhaps even the nerd mindset, to borrow a phrase from another thread.

I use to labor under such a mindset. I use to subscribe to. I use to loathe Starship Trooper's the movie. I hated the Baby Blues series and I couldn't stand Ben Hur. But, then I realized that I was just making myself miserable by being angry, rather than trying something new. Lord of the Rings introduced that to me, and I am grateful, extremely so, to the Jackson films for giving me the opportunity to learn what adaptation is all about.

The majority of their audience will most likely be Tolkien geeks like me. That's who they're aiming at. They are alienating a large portion of their audience.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The majority of their audience will most likely be Tolkien geeks like me. That's who they're aiming at. They are alienating a large portion of their audience.

Oh, so you've already watched the entire first season?!

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

Oh, so you've already watched the entire first season?!

AFAIK nobody has. This entire thread is based on the information released so-far.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Which is exactly my point. Here you're judging the entire production based on very little publicly released information.

And have the gall to speak for "a large portion of their audience."

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

And have the gall to speak for "a large portion of their audience."

I didn't draw that conclusion on my own, but after reading lots of materials that say precisely that and corroborate my claim. As to my assumption of a large portion of their audience, if they release a new Trek show, a large portion of their audience with be Trekkies. If they release that Buffy reboot, a large portion of the audience will be Buffy geeks. If they release a new Dr. Who show, a large portion of the audience will be Dr. Who geeks.

 

[fireproof78]

The majority of their audience will most likely be Tolkien geeks like me. That's who they're aiming at. They are alienating a large portion of their audience.

Good. Let them do it.

There's plenty of historical evidence for more diversity in the Middle Ages than is generally assumed, especially with how large and multi-cultural the Roman Empire was. So, if fans are going to be alienated because of assumption then let them. I'll watch it and enjoy it for what it is-an adaptation of a world I thoroughly enjoy.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I didn't draw that conclusion on my own, but after reading lots of materials that say precisely that and corroborate my claim. As to my assumption of a large portion of their audience, if they release a new Trek show, a large portion of their audience with be Trekkies. If they release that Buffy reboot, a large portion of the audience will be Buffy geeks. If they release a new Dr. Who show, a large portion of the audience will be Dr. Who geeks.

That's not the part I'm taking issue to.

It's the claim that this production is alienating a large portion of their audience.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

That's not the part I'm taking issue to.

It's the claim that this production is alienating a large portion of their audience.

Acknowledged. Allow me to correct myself, likely will.

 

[Kor]

There ye go!

I was once told by a native Irishman that Welsh and Gaelic were never meant to have a written alphabet associated with them. They were originally spoken languages only. It was apparently the English need to impose the written alphabet on these languages and wacky-ass names that did not sound like how they were spelled was the result. I honestly believe they made these names out of random letters to perpetually confuse the English if they ever tried to invade and couldn’t read local maps to figure out where they were.

The comment was perhaps meant to be humorous. All languages were only spoken and not written at the earliest stages in their history. But Irish was first recorded in written form in a native Irish alphabet called Ogham with examples surviving from the fourth century. And then in the fifth and sixth centuries the Latin alphabet, with some adaptations, came to be used more in manuscripts due to missionary influence. Similarly, Welsh was written using the Latin alphabet as early as the sixth century, possibly earlier. Even English didn't start using the Latin alphabet until the eighth century, and that was because Irish missionaries introduced it to the Anglo-Saxons in the first place. Before that it used Germanic runes. One thing that English did do centuries later was come up with confused spellings of Irish, Scottish and Welsh place and person names, often times based on what the name "sounded like" to an English speaker, and disregarding the accurate sounds of the original languages and the ways those languages had already been transcribing the names using Latin script.

Anyways, I didn't mean to veer too far off of the topic of the LOTR series... I do enjoy the LOTR and Hobbit movies, but I've never actually read any of the novels. On general principle I would hope that the series doesn't veer too far from the source material when it comes to the First and Second Ages. But since I'm not personally familiar with said source material, I won't know either way. And there is a need to present the material in a way that's accessible to general audiences who aren't intimately familiar with the sources. Apparently 150 million copies of LOTR novel have been sold worldwide. Assuming that means at least that many people have actually read it, how many of those 150 million are avid enthusiasts, and how many are more casual readers? Will all readers have strict expectations that a televisual adaptation will adhere extremely closely to the written form?

On another note, I may have missed some discussion of diversity earlier in this thread. As touched upon already, recent scholarship has shown that medieval and early modern Europe were more racially diverse than popularly-held notions might maintain. Even if that wasn't the case, a fantasy setting many thousands of years ago that doesn't line up with current geography and includes fantasy "races" that don't even exist in real life, should allow some wiggle room for having different varieties of people within those races.

Kor

 

[DigificWriter]

The majority of their audience will most likely be Tolkien geeks like me. That's who they're aiming at.

You really do not understand how the entertainment business works if you genuinely believe this.

There are not enough 'Tolkien geeks' on the planet to make this show viable for Amazon; the actual target audience for the series is the people who know virtually nothing about Middle-earth.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

You really do not understand how the entertainment business works if you genuinely believe this.

There are not enough 'Tolkien geeks' on the planet to make this show viable for Amazon; the actual target audience for the series is the people who know virtually nothing about Middle-earth.

I may very well not.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Acknowledged. Allow me to correct myself, likely will.

Again. You don't speak for us. Only for you.

 

[JD]

I can tell you right now, if they didn't include some racial diversity in the cast, a lot more people would be upset about that, than the handful of Tolkien fans who are might be upset about there being black elves.
So for them it's a matter of definitely upsetting a lot of people, or maybe upsetting a small handful of people.
The truth of the matter is, if they want to be successful they are going have to meet certain expectations that modern audiences have for their big budget streaming series, and those expectations aren't always going to line up with what was in the books. The books were written back in the 1950s, and things have changed a lot since then, so they're going to have write for a 2022 audience, not for the 1950s audience that Tolkien wrote for.

 

[crookeddy]

I can tell you right now, if they didn't include some racial diversity in the cast, a lot more people would be upset about that, than the handful of Tolkien fans who are might be upset about there being black elves.
So for them it's a matter of definitely upsetting a lot of people, or maybe upsetting a small handful of people.
The truth of the matter is, if they want to be successful they are going have to meet certain expectations that modern audiences have for their big budget streaming series, and those expectations aren't always going to line up with what was in the books. The books were written back in the 1950s, and things have changed a lot since then, so they're going to have write for a 2022 audience, not for the 1950s audience that Tolkien wrote for.

A lot of the criticism of The Wheel of Time was about the diverse cast... I think its a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. Such is life in the throes of the culture war.

 

[fireproof78]

can tell you right now, if they didn't include some racial diversity in the cast, a lot more people would be upset about that, than the handful of Tolkien fans who are might be upset about there being black elves.

They'll be upset regardless. Tell a good story and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Ragitsu]

Are there any attractive characters?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Are there any attractive characters?

Yes.

All of them.

 

[Ragitsu]

The majority of their audience will most likely be Tolkien geeks like me. That's who they're aiming at. They are alienating a large portion of their audience.

Thankfully, the original works will continue to persist. My advice - assuming you are going to give this live-action televised adaptation a whirl - is to treat Amazon's attempt as fan-fiction.

 

[fireproof78]

Are there any attractive characters?

No.