Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Cyrus, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Location:
    Back to the lower decks
    I actually thought this was the best episode so far. I was iffy on the first two but this one felt much stronger. Maybe the change in director helped.

    I did have a bit of a moment of geek-panic when Elendil was talking to Isildur and Eärien (who, from what I can tell, is wholly original to this show, which is fine by me) but Anárion was nowhere to be seen, until he was finally mentioned. That was a bit of a relief since the existence of Anárion is rather integral to the future of Middle-earth.
     
    Commander Troi and Skellington like this.
  2. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    [QUOTE="Jedi Marso, post: 14264295, member: 796"
    There are horses in Middle Earth. The Black Riders rode them, as did Arwen, and the entire host of Rohan. Oh, and let's not forget Bill the Pony.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but that was all in LOTR, I'm just talking about in Rings of Power. I just kind of stood out to me since everyone was riding everywhere in LOTR, but then up until today's episode there was not a horse in sight in RoP. And then they seemed to even acknowledge that there was something going on there when Galadriel seemed so shocked they were going riding to the tower, and her reaction while she was riding.
    It might seem that way now, but I'm thinking the identity of The Stranger is going to be a huge part of the story once it gets going. There's just way too much mystery around his identity for it not to be a very big deal.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  3. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    Episode 3 is a bit of a slower episode, and the first one I'd call weak. I liked Numenor and the characters connected to it getting introduced, but once again the proto Hobbits have the weakest plot in the episode, outright boring me at times. I really hope the mysterious guy gets a bit more "normal" before the season finale, he's the only intriguing part of the Hobbit storyline but he's just kind of being a weird silent mystery right now.

    The captured elf plot I'm neutral on. Its not bad, but it wasn't anything special this episode. Overall its a weak episode, but it doesn't dampen my enjoyment and interest in the series overall.
     
  4. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    So the Southlands are Mordor. I forgot that was south. I always thought it was north
     
  5. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Just because there were horses wide-spread in Middle Earth thousands of years from now doesn't mean that there might not actually be horses (or wide-spread use) of them at this point in time. I believe the generally accepted theory is that horses went extinct in North & South America and it wasn't until the Europeans came and reintroduced them that they returned.

    It's certainly possible that there was not horses in Middle Earth and that it was the Elves who had them in Valinor and gifted them to the Numenoreans along with the islands. So they're not at all common in Middle Earth at this time, but will become such over the next thousands of years.

    I feel like Halbrand is going to be the anti-Aragorn. He's going to share the 'King lineage', but I don't think he's going to become a noble King like Aragorn. I actually wonder if he's going to become the Witch-king of Angmar.

    of course there is also a chance he is Ned Starked in the season finale... I just don't see redoing an Aragorn plot making sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
    Commander Troi likes this.
  6. Moist_Cake

    Moist_Cake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Or one could argue she broke from tradition and their ways and showed free will. I think that's a much better plot and not an unusual film trope.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  7. Moist_Cake

    Moist_Cake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Yes, that's why it would be cool. It's a film remember, a fictional fantasy. It's not real.
     
    Ragitsu likes this.
  8. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    It's impossible to tell if this show's Galadriel has free will even if the showrunners cared about such things, which I doubt. It's also impossible to tell whether we even have free will in our reality. I doubt that we do, but I can't prove it. Neuroscience and physics suggest that we might be automata with the illusion of choice and agency but currently I don't know how one would test this worldview.

    It's unlikely that this show will examine philosophical viewpoints such as determinism, libertarianism and compatibilism. It does seem that it will cover the dichotomy between death and deathless, though, and that is another of Tolkien's major themes.

    Yes, it's something that many on the Internet should heed but then they probably have no free will.

    ETA: I thought episode three was a solid enough. I'd rate it B. Episodes one and two, I'd rate B- and A-. The show is still introducing characters, and this is slowing down the pacing. It's not stellar yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
    Commander Troi likes this.
  9. Moist_Cake

    Moist_Cake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    I think addressing free will is something the showrunners may include. I think they are already touching on it. The Elves made conscious choices throughout LotR that went against the grain.

    I'm not sure what that has to do with our world though.

    As for the episodes, I rank them so far in the order they appear. I don't expect all episodes to be an over the top spectacle though. If every episode is all action and fighting, that would become boring also.
     
  10. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    Perhaps but I think they'll concentrate on one theme and Amazon doesn't have rights to The Silmarillion or other Tolkien works that expose the legendarium's philosophical underpinnings (supposedly Catholic in nature but I'm no theologian). It's also way off what people are used to dealing with if they're only familiar with the movies of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies.



    One might think one makes a conscious choice, but one has no way of telling if one was always going to make the choice that one did. Physics - both special relativity and the relative-state formulation of quantum mechanics - suggest that the future or all possible futures already exist. Superdeterminism is the latest thinking along such lines.



    Neuroscience demonstrates that we only become consciously aware of what we choose after our brain has made the choice at lower level. Even if the pre-conscious brain does drive choice, there is no way of showing that it would ever have done otherwise than what it did.

     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
    Commander Troi likes this.
  11. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Adar - hiding in plain site:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Moist_Cake

    Moist_Cake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    OK and? What does that have to do with free will in the film? lol
    You still haven't answered the question, but just posted a bunch of opinions regarding free will. Point please?
     
  13. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    You can't understand the concept of free will in the TV series in isolation. You need to understand the philosophy both in the legendarium and in the real world. I don't think it will be a major theme of the show in any case. It's just too deep for this sort of entertainment. I can't say it bothers me frankly but I was always going to write that.

    Definitions of free will vary as much as those of consciousness and there is no established consensus. I assume you have adopted a libertarian definition rather than a deterministic definition.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
    Disposable_Ensign likes this.
  14. Moist_Cake

    Moist_Cake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    I haven't given it any thought at all. I have no view of free will as you describe. But you stating things as facts when it's just opinion.

    And still not sure what a philosophical view on free will in the real world has to do with a children's fantasy adventure that takes place in a fictional world.
     
  15. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    I did nothing of the sort. What I stated was my biased opinion and I admit I have no way of proving it. The greatest philosophers of the past couple of thousand years could not agree nor come to a conclusion so I certainly can't with my punier brain.
    It is not purely a children's fantasy adventure. Have you ever read any of Tolkien's works? His legendarium is much deeper than a mere swords and sorcery romp. It deals with major themes of human existence in a monotheistic universe - albeit from the perspective of someone born in the 19th century at about the same time as my grandfathers.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  16. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) If You Want it Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Nutopian North Pole
    "Modern Days" are longer and longer. They seem to last centuries. ;)
     
  17. Disposable_Ensign

    Disposable_Ensign Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2021
    Location:
    Sunnydale, west of Rohan (on Vulcan)
    Looks like a poster for The Witcher.
     
  18. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    Joseph Mawle plays Adar ("father" in Quenya) - he does seem more like an actor fitted to portray Sauron than Charlie Vickers. IMDB lists Vickers as appearing in seven episodes of season one and Mawle in six. Perhaps there is quite a bit of deliberate misdirection going on with Halband's sudden interest in smithing. Would they telegraph it so obviously given that Sauron studied under Aulë?
     
  19. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    My biggest critique continues to be that I feel they should swap Galadriel's and Elrond's storylines.
    In the wider Middle Earth mythos Galadriel has closer ties to Eregion and Moria, while Elrond, through his brother, would be closer to Numenor.
    Though maybe her travelling/working with Halbrand in the East/the "Southlands" will bring her in contact with a certain tribe of Woodelf and their silver-haired leader(the Lord of the Rings by itself suggests that Celeborn is a sylvan elf who always lived by the Anduin and Galadriel wandered into his domain)
    And really Halbrand sounds anglo-saxon enough for him to be a progenitor of the people who would eventually settle in Rohan.
    Maybe they plan to show the birth of Rhovanion as it exists in the Third Age through those two...

    I also really like how they realised Numenor on this show, I never imagined it so spectacular, and they have a very interesting setup with Miriel, Pharazon and Elendil and I look forward to see how that will impact the storyline.

    And who's the "father" the Orcs celebrate at the end of the episode? Is it Sauron? He didn't look like Anatar from the trailers...
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  20. Absolute Zero

    Absolute Zero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    Halbrand is Sindarin for "high noble", I believe. One of the Dúnadan Rangers of Aragorn's time was called Halbarad (Sindarin for "high fortress"). Sindarin is the common tongue of Second Age Middle-earth; while Westron, derived from the Adûnaic tongue of Númenor, dominates in the Third Age.

    I thought the person many identified as Annatar in the trailers has been confirmed by the showrunners not to be he.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.