Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[Turtletrekker]

You can find pretty much everything that is known about the Blue Wizards at the One Ring to Rule Them All wiki...

Blue Wizards

"Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion... and after his first fall to search out his hiding and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East... They must have had very great influence on the...

lotr.fandom.com

There is an interesting quote from Tolkien on that page where he says that he feels that the Blue Wizards had "a very great influence on the second age and the third age". We know that Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast all arrived in the third age, but that quote would make it seem as if the blue wizards arrived earlier.

 

[fireproof78]

Speaking as a former purist, I'm good with that.

Same here. But, I also really love the south and eastern sides of Middle Earth and would welcome more. I would welcome any more Blue Wizards and their roles in the fight against Sauron.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

You can find pretty much everything that is known about the Blue Wizards at the One Ring to Rule Them All wiki...

Blue Wizards

"Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion... and after his first fall to search out his hiding and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East... They must have had very great influence on the...

lotr.fandom.com

There is an interesting quote from Tolkien on that page where he says that he feels that the Blue Wizards had quite the impact on both the second and third ages. We know that Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast all arrived in the third age, but that quote would make it seem as if the blue wizards arrived earlier.

I've seen that ambiguous information regarding them in the Second Age but I think (without looking at the Wiki article first) that he also later changed his mind on that ambiguity, which I believe is what fireproof was referring to before.

Same here. But, I also really love the south and eastern sides of Middle Earth and would welcome more. I would welcome any more Blue Wizards and their roles in the fight against Sauron.

I would very much welcome that as well for the same reasons.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I've seen that ambiguous information regarding them in the Second Age but I think (without looking at the Wiki article first) that he also later changed his mind on that ambiguity, which I believe is what fireproof was referring to before.

That information is also available on the page in a different quote. Tolkien has nothing definitive to say about the failure or otherwise about the blue wizards, only that he fears that they failed.

 

[fireproof78]

That information is also available on the page in a different quote. Tolkien has nothing definitive to say about the failure or otherwise about the blue wizards, only that he fears that they failed.

Nothing definitive, but at least more optimistic later on comment from later writings and comments.
From later on:
Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

"Last Writings", The Peoples of Middle-earth[4]

 

[The Nth Doctor]

One thing I did learn from that article is that I never knew The Peoples of Middle-earth provided a second set of names for them.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm not going to watch that trailer because I was already convinced by one that came out a few weeks ago, and I want to go into the season as unspoiled as possible.

That being said, I really hope the Stranger is a Blue Wizard because I really don't want him to be Gandalf.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I also really really don't want him to be Gandalf but the show certainly seems to want us think he is Gandalf.

 

[UssGlenn]

I had a theory that he could be Gandalf the Brown, or Blue. Then at the end he "dies" and later comes back in the 3rd age as Gandalf the Gray.

 

[fireproof78]

If it's Gandalf then ok. I think the story is ok enough to allow it.

 

[kirk55555]

When it comes to wizards, I'm hoping those are Blue Wizards but

Spoiler: Trailer

If that guy is Saruman and the Stranger is gandalf at least that means Gandalf came to Middle Earth after Saruman, as he should, even though they'd all be thousands of years too early.

That said, while I've definitely accepted that the show is going to twist the lore into a pretzel and literally all of the changes will be for the worse, the way the Wizards actually came to Middle Earth and their general story is much more interesting in the actual lore, even if its not action packed. To be clear I like the show a lot despite its weird, usually self caused problems, but that doesn't change the fact that its story is definitely inferior to its source material in literally every way and none of the differences or additions are ever improvements.

I've been trying to figure out why the show, for all its faults, doesn't piss me off like the Hobbit movies do. Maybe its because The Hobbit was a fairly straightforward complete story with no rights issues to hold its adaptation back (at least once production started) and yet the movies completely screwed that story up, while Rings of Power is kind of just chugging along trying its best (while still making weird choices for seemingly no reason). RoP has more heart, I guess you could say, and that plus the fact that it inspired me to finally go and experience all of the expanded Tolkien lore, which I've really enjoyed, have given me a big soft spot for RoP despite its problems, while the Hobbit movies still mostly just irritate me.

 

[fireproof78]

that its story is definitely inferior to its source material in literally every way and none of the differences or additions are ever improvements.

Why does that matter?

This show isn't the source material and shouldn't be compared to it. Lord of the Rings is inferior to the source material too.

 

[JD]

One of the articles I read back a few weeks ago when all the new press was starting for it pointed out that Rhun is connected to the Blue Wizards, so the fact that Nori, Poppy, and The Stranger are there this season, could be hint that he's one of them.

Rufus Wainright Sings Tom Bombadil's Song

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[FPAlpha]

Why does that matter?

This show isn't the source material and shouldn't be compared to it. Lord of the Rings is inferior to the source material too.

It matter when you adapt a work of art and you do it in a manner that completely leaves the story and its characters.

With RoP i don't get that feeling. Yes, they changed the timeline around and introduced new characters that were not in the book and on top of it they don't have full rights to the works of Tolkien, which means they had to become creative in certain parts.

However the books don't lend themselves well to filming, especially The Silmarillion with its vast scope and timeline. Characters dart in and out quick, do some heroics and then its a couple of hundred or thousand years of basically nothing before the next event - how do you film that without constantly exchanging characters save for the immortal ones?

I do understand hardcore fans and feel for them, for other works i'm in their boat when they adapt books i love badly but it is very subjective as to what constitutes bad.

I like this show very much, like to see the history unfold that came way before LotR and so what if they compressed the timeline and fudged the history of some characters ( i don't care if the Stranger turns out to be Gandalf but i can understand if people don't because it goes against the books).

 

[fireproof78]

matter when you adapt a work of art and you do it in a manner that completely leaves the story and its characters.

Mmm... I use to think this.

I don't anymore.

do understand hardcore fans and feel for them, for other works i'm in their boat when they adapt books i love badly but it is very subjective as to what constitutes bad.

I do to a degree but it's not worth the consternation. An adaptation still must stand as an artistic work by itself, aside from the work it was adapted from.

So, I'll take Rings of Power as it comes and judge it that way.

As I said, if I took umbrage at the changes even the vaunted Lord of the Rings film trilogy falls short

 

[FPAlpha]

Mmm... I use to think this.

I don't anymore.


I do to a degree but it's not worth the consternation. An adaptation still must stand as an artistic work by itself, aside from the work it was adapted from.

So, I'll take Rings of Power as it comes and judge it that way.

As I said, if I took umbrage at the changes even the vaunted Lord of the Rings film trilogy falls short

I'm happy if the people making the adaptation keep the spirit of the original material, even if they cut or add elements because film is a different medium than the book obviously.

For example the second Dune movie by Villeneuve deviates quite a bit from the book in certain parts but it fits the narrative and the central themes of the book so i'm all good ( and i'm a hardcore fan of the books). It is a highly emotional issue for many so objectivity may not be in high demand, especially when it's on the Internet where everybody just dumps their thoughts unfiltered.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm happy if the people making the adaptation keep the spirit of the original material, even if they cut or add elements because film is a different medium than the book obviously.

I would love it if that was the case.

That has rarely been my experience in franchises that I personally enjoy. So, I take the books and the adaptations as two separate things. Otherwise, well, I learned that spending my life angry at adaptations is not helpful to me.

Mileage will vary.

 

[kirk55555]

Why does that matter?

This show isn't the source material and shouldn't be compared to it. Lord of the Rings is inferior to the source material too.

Generally speaking, I believe that an adaptation should actually adapt its source material with as few changes as is feasibly/legally possible, if some producer/writer/Director wants to do their own thing then they should make an original property. Thats why I think that a Director like Todd Phillips is an ass for (and he admits this openly) just slapping the Joker name/IP on an "original" script (more accurately the script mostly just is a rip off of a few other films, but you know what I mean).

Now adapting book to film will require changes, they are two different mediums and they generally tell stories differently. Peter Jackson and his team did that excellently in the LOTR trilogy, they cut stuff and shifted a few things but most of the differences make sense for the shift in medium (except what they did to Faramir, that was them legitimately not understanding what Tolkien was doing with the character). You could argue that they should have left this or that in, but I think they did pretty much the best job they could in the circumstances.

The Rings of Power people are not making the best show they could make in their circumstances, but to me they're genuinely trying a lot more then the The Hobbit movies, so I can enjoy the show while acknowledging that its objectively terrible at adapting its source material. When they actually use the source material they tend to do a good job with it, its when they change stuff for no reason that RoP tends to fall on its face (no one forced them to put pseudo Hobbits in the show, or Halbrand or have the rings made out of order, etc).

I honestly believe that a fairly accurate adaptation of the Second age stories is very much doable (as is The Silmarillion in general when you get down to it, regardless of what people say), at least to the standard of the LOTR trilogy adaptations. RoP fails at that, sometimes for reasons beyond their control (rights issues) and sometimes by their own poor decisions. I still like the show, its a breathe of fresh air in a genre that has been held down by GOT's stink for too long, but I'm still going to critisize it when it does something I don't like as an adaptation decision or just in general.

 

[fireproof78]

Generally speaking, I believe that an adaptation should actually adapt its source material with as few changes as is feasibly/legally possible, if some producer/writer/Director wants to do their own thing then they should make an original property.

Much of literature adaptation must be wrong then. Wizard of Oz, Little Mermaid, Snow White and Red Rose, Hamlet, and Cinderella all join Lord of the Rings in its changes to make a film.

 

[DigificWriter]

I believe that an adaptation should actually adapt its source material with as few changes as is feasibly/legally possible

Translation: I'm not actually looking for an adaptation.