Lorca and the hard man making hard choices

[Jayson1]

I think it's because people like characters who are complex. That means characters who are able have both good and bad traits to them. People also enjoy watching bad behavior and conflict. I mean the writers on TNG constantly talked about how the lack of conflict was a problem for the show so you need characters who butt heads and have different points of views but if the hardcore character is written to always be wrong then it becomes one-note and predictable and kind of boring. Not to mention that fact that in life sometimes the more immoral choice is the right choice. Especially when it comes to war.

The other issue is Burnham wasn't always written well and the actress is limited as a series lead and especially when she is going to be acting with a superior actor. She also has some flaws but everyone is supose to always think she is right on a issue. She is allowed to make mistakes but to never really be wrong morally on anything.

To me Burnham also wouldn't be a huge issue because Kirk was also the kind of super heroic type that we are supose to see almost like a God in just how awesome he is. Only reason it doesn't quite work as well with Burnham is she doesn't have Shatner's ability to play the, bigger than life, type of personality nor is she really his equal in terms of acting compared to the 1st and 2nd season when he was still trying.

The other issue is that we were told that this show was going to be a edgy "Game of Thrones" type of show, which means a character like Lorca fits better into that kind of show. "Discovery" though is basically not that more edgy or different than old school Trek. Burnham actually might fit well in that kind of show but I think they will need the actress to improve and also add more humor. Lots more humor. Doing the dark and depressing stuff doesn't work if your not even going to be a gritty and edgy show. You need to do the "DS9" aproach and do a show that can be somewhat edgy at times but also a show that has some sense of fun to it.

IMO if the show changes it's format and basically imbraces the idea that the show is a old fashioned Trek show more than it is a modern edgy Drama then I think Lorca might not be missed as much as we predict. I still think they will need to bring in a big name actor but he or she won't need to play they same type of character that was Lorca. I would love for example to see Rain Wilson come back and play Mudd as a regular and provide Comic Relief. Hell I wouln't even mind bringing in Prime Lorca to only find out he has a sense of humor and might be kind of a eccentric weirdo instead of a hardass solider type. It's something that has worked on "The Flash" by seeing different types of Harrison Wells.

Jason

 

[Silversmok3]

My view ; the problem with Lorca’s character is it highlights a Big Flaw with Star Trek TV. The writers get so caught up depicting Starfleet leaders at their best that it becomes comically improbable to watch.You can’t emphasize with a guy or girl who has no flaws and always makes the ethical decision,because that’s fairy tale manure.

In Capt. Lorca I saw a flawed man in a high pressure situation,doing the best he could to make the war end. He got put in some no-win scenarios,just like real people at war end up. He bent the rules,just like real people at war do. He made mistakes,just like real people at war do. So he became an identifiable character for many folks; as did Burnham. She made a mistake and had to pay the price too. Which was a breath of fresh air,compared to previous Captains who felt like walking statues.

Then the writers take all that character development behind the shed and shoot it. Now Lorca’s actions aren’t because he’s a normal Starfleet captain with a lot on his plate- he’s a Mirror Universe imposter with Botwin syndrome . Michael Burnams complexity isn’t because she’s a normal person who makes mistakes, but because she’s destined to rebel against her mentors (?). It’s all a bag of WTF,and they’re trading character development for shock value. Now it’s the end of the season and we have no idea who the hell these folks are. Next episode we’ll find out Tilly is a Tal Shiar double agent....

 

[T'Bonz]

^ The Tal Shiar isn't THAT desperate!

 

[eschaton]

It strikes me that this could easily be part of a compelling show, but needn't be all of it. Imagine a Trek show that had separate plot threads on (say) a starship, a merchant freighter, a starbase, a colony world, and Federation HQ, with compelling characters in each, moving among them as the story required, with subplots converging and then separating again. Something akin to a futuristic Game of Thrones. Something like The Expanse, but with a bigger budget and in the Trekverse. Something like the ST: Vanguard novels, but on screen.

The other alternative is to embrace Trek as - fundamentally - a workplace drama. Plenty of "modern TV" shows are workplace dramas, like Mad Men, although workplace comedies (which aren't as heavily serialized) seem to be more frequent. But there are some advantages. Basically the "A story" each week could be about the characters and their interactions, leaving any "sci fi of the week" to the less important B story, or even just have it further in the background.

The problem with this construction is that it really ignores the Trek setting and tells stories which could be told anywhere. This is particularly the case because the Discovery crew (as it is currently constructed) is very human-heavy. If you're not introducing the "sci-fi" element via plots of the week, it has to be woven into the characters themselves.

 

[Silversmok3]

The other alternative is to embrace Trek as - fundamentally - a workplace drama. Plenty of "modern TV" shows are workplace dramas, like Mad Men, although workplace comedies (which aren't as heavily serialized) seem to be more frequent. But there are some advantages. Basically the "A story" each week could be about the characters and their interactions, leaving any "sci fi of the week" to the less important B story, or even just have it further in the background.

The problem with this construction is that it really ignores the Trek setting and tells stories which could be told anywhere. This is particularly the case because the Discovery crew (as it is currently constructed) is very human-heavy. If you're not introducing the "sci-fi" element via plots of the week, it has to be woven into the characters themselves.

I like the idea. Frankly, the way USS Discovery is set up now works great: the problem is in the execution. If the writers gave a damn about building characters people can relate to and care about ,the series would do just fine. What makes GoT work is you care about the people and their struggles ,even when they’re straight up villains. When you have characters doing things only because it moves the half ass story forward , it’s schlock.

Showing Burnham earn her way back into Starfleets good graces under the leadership of a flawed but right thinking leader was a refreshing change of pace from the technobabble BS and stuffy ethics speeches of earlier series’. We know the staff can create a good story because they did it in the first half of Discoverys season. Then they threw it all away for lazy writing,and it’s damned frustrating to watch the result.

 

[Tallguy]

I think the fact that Lorca managed to fool even people who knew him well means that Prime Lorca isn't that different from Mirror Lorca. He just won't hijack starships or send admirals to a miserable death by Klingon.

 

[fireproof78]

If the writers gave a damn about building characters people can relate to and care about ,the series would do just fine.

Dumb question time-who are the "people" that should be relating to? I relate to DISCO characters just fine, and have yet to find a GOT character that I can relate with.

 

[Vger23]

All I know about Lorca is that he is so awesome that, between trying to bang Michael, Landry and that other guy's sister...and take over the entire Terran Empire...he apparently learned how to speak with a perfectly reasonable Scottish accent. Just in case.

The man is likely immortal.

 

[fireproof78]

All I know about Lorca is that he is so awesome that, between trying to bang Michael, Landry and that other guy's sister...and take over the entire Terran Empire...he apparently learned how to speak with a perfectly reasonable Scottish accent. Just in case.

The man is likely immortal.

He's actually trying to become like James Bond of Starfleet.