Long overdue improvements to Starfleet

[The Wormhole]

It's a bit odd, out of all Star Trek, he's one of the only two people in Starfleet to have non-naval ranks.

I honestly don't know why they just didn't have him wear a MACO uniform.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ They probably didn't want to invent one uniform that would only be worn once. No MACO character has ever worn a 'normal' duty uniform on the show; they are always seen in fatigues.

I see two possibilities:

- Askwith was a transfer from Starfleet to the MACOs, and was wearing his old uniform

- Askwith's uniform as seen in this episode was NOT exactly the same as a Starfleet uni; it just appeared to be. We never saw Askwith close up, remember. There could have been differences.

 

[muzzleflash]

Once it's deflected by a Federation starship the process is no longer natural.

No.

Humans are a product of nature. We evolved to this state, as the result of nature. Our intellect, and the ability to use it to create technology, is the result of nature. Just as a beaver builds damns, we build cities and (in the Trek future) starships. So what is it about human intervention that makes it not natural for you? If starships are not natural, what is? Is brushing our teeth natural? Is wearing clothes natural?

Why is it natural? Nature and luck sent that asteroid hurtling towards them; nothing else. If a Starship interferes then nature has been subverted. We are a part of nature, so are they, so is the asteroid and the gravitational forces of the star system. We though can interfere and when we do, it’s no longer natural.

As you agree yourself, we are part of nature. If we are part of nature, then why does our intervention make it not natural? Why do you consider the intervention of gravity natural but the intervention of humans not natural, when you agree that both gravity and humans are part of nature?

 

[muzzleflash]

I agree with ditching the Prime Directive or at least rewriting it so that it isn't as inhumane and callous as it is in the TNG era. Allowing whole civilizations to die isn't something that should be advocated by the protagonists because some rule says they shouldn't get involved in stuff happening to pre-warp civilizations.

The question then is, who made them God? Should they deflect every incoming asteroid or comet that would cause an extension level event for every pre-warp civilization they know?

Frankly, that's non-sense.

You are unconfortable with some actions seen in trek because they display a level of power you superstitiously think should belong only to God.

Well, whether you're unconfortable or not with it, beings in the trekverse (and even in the real world, in certain areas) have that level of power.

Who made them "God"?
Themselves, be gaining such power.
And 'God' is not a fitting word for what they are.


Also - you thing just standing on the sidelines gets one out of the moral hook - when he had the aility to intervene?
If one stopping an asteroid is playing 'god', then one not stopping it despire having the ability to stop it is also playing 'god'.
Inaction is just as morally (and legally) binding as action - read criminal law and cases (from ANY law system known to man) if you don't beleive me.

Well said.

 

[Vanyel]

muzzleflash,

Go back and read my responses I countered each of his points and his responses to my counterarguments dwindled to just a few. If what he said was "Well said." Then that term has a low threshold. He also failed to answer questioned asked of him and when he did answer, clarification was asked and he provided none.

I'm going to have just say that he and you are equally entrenched in your arguments, as am I. He will not convince me because he cannot, or will not, answer the questions I posed. And you seemed to have over looked my counterarguments.

As a result of this impasse, I am going to end this, by asking that we agree to disagree.

Good night.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Vanyel

You should read your previous posts yourself, Vanyel. And mine.

I stopped responding to your posts after it became clear that all you can come up with are straw men, double standards and non sequiturs - and that you will keep coming up with them, either just to be contrary or because you are incapable of recognising them even when pointed out to you.

 

[The Castellan]

Based on what, exactly? Suppose I develop a cure for lung cancer with the goal of curing my father who has the disease. I successfully cure him, and choose not to share my findings with you or anyone else. On what basis do you have a "right" to that cure?

Well, I would call you a selfish, self centered son of a bitch if that was the case.

If I discovered a cure to something or did Tesla's dream of free, unlimited energy....I'd find a way to have it broadcast publicly so everyone can see it, and therefore use it and not be big business's bitch and also to keep the government and military from getting sole control over it and I'd find a way to keep it from getting a patent. Some things, in my book, should not be a luxury, but a guarantee.


Anyhow, I'd also make a policy in Starfleet to stop making control panels that explode in the operators' faces.

 

[sevenstars]

If I discovered a cure to something or did Tesla's dream of free, unlimited energy....I'd find a way to have it broadcast publicly so everyone can see it, and therefore use it and not be big business's bitch and also to keep the government and military from getting sole control over it and I'd find a way to keep it from getting a patent. Some things, in my book, should not be a luxury, but a guarantee.

I like the way you think, Castellan.

 

[captcalhoun]

sounds like you'd do what Micah Brack did with Zefram Cochrane's warp drive in the novel 'Federation' - he released the plans for the 'super impellor' on to the internet (basically) and allowed any one to download them and copy them.

 

[The Castellan]

If I discovered a cure to something or did Tesla's dream of free, unlimited energy....I'd find a way to have it broadcast publicly so everyone can see it, and therefore use it and not be big business's bitch and also to keep the government and military from getting sole control over it and I'd find a way to keep it from getting a patent. Some things, in my book, should not be a luxury, but a guarantee.

I like the way you think, Castellan.

Thank you, sir.

sounds like you'd do what Micah Brack did with Zefram Cochrane's warp drive in the novel 'Federation' - he released the plans for the 'super impellor' on to the internet (basically) and allowed any one to download them and copy them.

Yep, sounds like something I'd do. See, if I were to make a big discovery like that, I'd do something exactly like that, maybe over television, too. I'd not be making a discovery for money, hell, money often KEEPS discoveries from happening, not encourage it. Either it gets suppressed, or one ends up paying extortionist prices for that, and that's just not right in my book.

 

[sevenstars]

*ahem* It's madam.

 

[muzzleflash]

muzzleflash,

Go back and read my responses I countered each of his points and his responses to my counterarguments dwindled to just a few. If what he said was "Well said." Then that term has a low threshold. He also failed to answer questioned asked of him and when he did answer, clarification was asked and he provided none.

I'm going to have just say that he and you are equally entrenched in your arguments, as am I. He will not convince me because he cannot, or will not, answer the questions I posed. And you seemed to have over looked my counterarguments.

I looked at your counterarguments that failed to counter any argument, yes.

As a result of this impasse, I am going to end this, by asking that we agree to disagree.

Good night.

How unfortunate.

 

[The Wormhole]

^ They probably didn't want to invent one uniform that would only be worn once. No MACO character has ever worn a 'normal' duty uniform on the show; they are always seen in fatigues.

I see two possibilities:

- Askwith was a transfer from Starfleet to the MACOs, and was wearing his old uniform

- Askwith's uniform as seen in this episode was NOT exactly the same as a Starfleet uni; it just appeared to be. We never saw Askwith close up, remember. There could have been differences.

I meant MACO fatigues, I don't know why they didn't jsut have the guy wearing that.

And his uniform looks similar enough to a Starfleet uniform that I see no reason to think it's anything else. See here.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I see two possibilities:

- Askwith was a transfer from Starfleet to the MACOs, and was wearing his old uniform

- Askwith's uniform as seen in this episode was NOT exactly the same as a Starfleet uni; it just appeared to be. We never saw Askwith close up, remember. There could have been differences.

I meant MACO fatigues, I don't know why they didn't jsut have the guy wearing that.

Probably because he's not in an active combat situation. I'm not sure what the exact guidelines are for modern day US Marines to wear their duty uniform (as opposed to fatigues) but this would be something similar.

 

[The Wormhole]

I see two possibilities:

- Askwith was a transfer from Starfleet to the MACOs, and was wearing his old uniform

- Askwith's uniform as seen in this episode was NOT exactly the same as a Starfleet uni; it just appeared to be. We never saw Askwith close up, remember. There could have been differences.

I meant MACO fatigues, I don't know why they didn't jsut have the guy wearing that.

Probably because he's not in an active combat situation. I'm not sure what the exact guidelines are for modern day US Marines to wear their duty uniform (as opposed to fatigues) but this would be something similar.

The NX-01 MACOs wore their fatigues when they weren't in active combat situations. Like when they served as the honour guard for the Tellerite ambassador in Babel One.

And it's perfecty understandable, since in the TV show there is no budget for seperate uniforms, so sometimes it's easier to have one uniform for all situations. Like the Marines on BSG, who were in full combat gear even in non-combat situations.

And besides, Enterprise had non problem creating a one-time uniform with the Starfleet dress uniform Archer wore in TATV. And that was something they knew they weren't ever going to use again.

 

[Mysterion]

And besides, Enterprise had non problem creating a one-time uniform with the Starfleet dress uniform Archer wore in TATV. And that was something they knew they weren't ever going to use again.

Being that TATV was the last episode, they could afford to blow the remaining budge on a new uniform. It's not like they had to worry about money for next weeks show.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

On the PD debate I tend to perfer the TOS version which basically seemed to be don't screw up the pre warp culture unless 1) Their about to be conqured by aliens, 2) an asteroid is about to hit them and maybe some other end of the world inducing distaster, or 3) Their "god" and/or they are trying to kill you and your ship.

 

[Lt. Beatings]

How did the holo viewscreen "radically change things?" The holo viewscreen is just a viewscreen done as a holographic projection as opposed to an actual screen. It doesn't radically change anything, it's just different from the norm. So whi is this considered so wrong that it has to be changed, but Abrams is allowed to get away with something else which is different from the norm? Or should we expect a traditional viewscreen in Trek XII?

Yeah i'm with you, in fact I didn't even notice it. It's basically just a projection on a wall rather than on a screen . . .

Also, what's the controversy with Abram's viewscreen supposed to be?

 

[Lt. Beatings]

Personal shield belts.

 

[The Wormhole]

Also, what's the controversy with Abram's viewscreen supposed to be?

There is none. I was aksing why there isn't.