Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

[therealsb63]

I tried to watch the series back when it came out and fled in disgust lol... I use Logan's Run as an example of the typical great book - good movie - awful TV series progression.

Don't forget the Marvel Comic!

(Which had nice art by George Perez, as I recall.)

I have the whole Marvel Run. It was funny how Marvel had the rights to do the adaptation, but didn't have the rights to use the likenesses of Michael York, Jenny Agutter, Richard Jordan, etc...but Perez's art more than made up for it. Was too bad it got cancelled only two issues after the movie adaptation was over, I had a feeling the voice that was talking to Francis in the last issue was what we would see in the series as the Council of Elders.

Speaking of the series, how many really noticed that the formulas for the "Logan's Run" series was the exact same as the "Planet Of The Apes" series, and both were on CBS. The three good guys (either Galen & the astronauts or Logan, Jessica and Rem) come into a town/settlement, find some kind of problem/oppression/danger that they help solve/stop/dispel, and make friends and get away just before the Ape Army/Sandmen catch up with them.

 

[sojourner]

^Which was also the formula for The Incredible Hulk, The A-Team, and countless other shows.

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

^Right back to The Fugitive.

 

[therealsb63]

You're both quite right...note even "The Hulk" was a CBS series as well..."The Invaders" followed the same motif as well.

 

[aelius]

How about Logan's Run + Soylent Green + Hunger Games.

When you turn 21, you have to fight to death against other young people--and the losers get turned into food paste!

"Feed your Hunger Games with Soylent Green!"

^^I assume you'll be writing the novelization?

Hmmm...Klaus, it's been about 24 hours since you asked him, and he's posted replies to several other posts in this thread since then. Have we stumbled onto a Top Secret Project he's not allowed to talk about (Neither confirm, nor deny)?

I wish! But, really, there's no need to novelize LOGAN'S RUN since there's a preexisting novel . . . not that this has always stopped Hollywood before.

(Anyone else remember BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA . . . by Fred Saberhagen? )

Me, I would just slap the key art for the new movie on the original novel and hope for the best. Most of the time that sells better than a straight novelization . . . .

The one by Saberhagen was The Dracula Tapes. And it was awesome. Bram Stokers Dracula, but from the POV of the one character you never heard from directly in that book. Dracula himself.

 

[Greg Cox]

Hmmm...Klaus, it's been about 24 hours since you asked him, and he's posted replies to several other posts in this thread since then. Have we stumbled onto a Top Secret Project he's not allowed to talk about (Neither confirm, nor deny)?

I wish! But, really, there's no need to novelize LOGAN'S RUN since there's a preexisting novel . . . not that this has always stopped Hollywood before.

(Anyone else remember BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA . . . by Fred Saberhagen? )

Me, I would just slap the key art for the new movie on the original novel and hope for the best. Most of the time that sells better than a straight novelization . . . .

The one by Saberhagen was The Dracula Tapes. And it was awesome. Bram Stokers Dracula, but from the POV of the one character you never heard from directly in that book. Dracula himself.

We're talking about two different books. Saberhagen did several Dracula novels, beginning with The Dracula Tapes. But he also wrote the novelization of the Coppola movie.

There have also been novelizations of such films as Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and Great Expectations, which always strikes me as a bit bizarre.

(I was once approached about publishing a novelization of The Island of Dr. Moreau, but didn't see the point; why not just reprint the original novel with the movie tie-in art on the cover?)

 

[Ian Keldon]

In the case of "Logan's Run", the movie departs so significantly from the book that it deserves it's own novelization.

 

[KNEADaTENSION]

I agree that the computer may be instigating the plot.

Just watched this before it leaves HBO Max, i prob hadn't seen it since was on TV in 80s.

The computer reacted to the ankh from the dead runner, yet Logan was unfamiliar. It seems that many citizens who knew of sanctuary were freely and fearlessly walking around with the symbols ie Jessica. Given how open the society seems, no parents raising kids, or private enclaves, no industry... who could drive the sanctuary myth, provide the ankhs yet not alert authorities, if not the computer?

I posit that the computer needs runners to have the knowledge of sanctuary and create a secret subculture around it. How, no clue but many ways could be done. Then occasionally, when a Sandman logs an ankh, he is sent to seek [and destroy, to assure the order doesn't short circuit his prior indoctrination] sanctuary. Possibly as a means to regularly test whether the outside is ready for re-habitation. The computer can't use any random runner for this, it'd need to use a more predictable state actor.

After all, there was a standing order in the computer where presented with the symbol, plus ankhs randomly in society. Doubtful Logan was the first Sandman to get that mission. The computer prob didn't expect a returning runner. However a returning Sandman, who probably couldn't single-handedly destroy "sanctuary", may have initiated further programming. The computer may have no ai, it's just executing programming serially once an event occurs.

Not what I mean. If Sanctuary is a creation of the Computer, then it MUST have told someone at some time, or the "runner network" would not have formed around trying to get to it, even adopting the ankh as their symbol.

It's clear that the Computer heard about Sanctuary FROM someone, probably a runner or an informant.

 

[Noname Given]

Huh? The Computer didn't create Sanctuary; it's just investigating the same urban legend the Runners are perpetuating. Its mistake is that it can't understand that human beings are capable of believing in something that doesn't exist, and even inventing elaborate mythologies and symbols to support that belief . . . like the ankhs and such.

The Computer believes Sanctuary is real because the Runners believe Sanctuary is real, and the Runners believe Sanctuary is real because no Runner has ever returned to the City . . . so they must have found Sanctuary, right?

(Nope, they all ended up flash-frozen by a crazy robot. Sanctuary is a myth, like El Dorado or Shangri-La.)

The whole thing is a not-so-subtle commentary on religions, cults, witch hunts, and conspiracy theories.

It's actually simpler than that. Remember the computer has a log of every single citizen. Once the computer sees that there are citizens 'missing' IE - citizens that were not confirmed to have attended carousel and been killed; It has to account for that discrepancy - so the AI concludes there must be a sanctuary where these unaccounted citizen 'runners' have gone to.

Remember in the film that there were plenty of myths the citizens believed, 'renewal' for one. It's more likely the myth of sanctuary grew from the technicians still interacting with the dome city computer, which was saying there must be some sort of sanctuary, because again, It has to account for these missing citizens.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I see this thread has won renewal.

I assume that the similarity of the word ankh - the name of the key to the maintenance area - and the word sanctuary was a coincidence and given mistaken significance by the runner cult. The ankh was the Egyptian symbol for life so perhaps it was used by the city builders to signify life support. I think the idea that the city itself was originally Sanctuary is plausible although this is only applicable to the movie. The computer fritzing itself in logical confusion is a typical plot device of the era - see Star Trek. It seemed like the weakest element of the adaptation to me.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The computer fritzing itself in logical confusion is a typical plot device of the era - see Star Trek. It seemed like the weakest element of the adaptation to me.

The computer malfunctioning / destroying itself made sense; after Logan's revealing interrogation, the computer was unable to process and accept the "truths" on which the entire society it ran was built. Runners, their belief in Sanctuary with many escaping was fundamental to the way the computer structured its ideas on right, wrong and the justice system used to enforce law (Sandmen). Logan upended that entire belief system to the degree that the idea of Runners never truly escaped (thanks to Box), nor was there a Sanctuary, so much of the computer's long-held "beliefs" / directives were instantly rendered irrelevant, but unlike a human who can change / alter his beliefs with the introduction of new information, the computer could not modify its programming, hence the self-destruction.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yeah, I just remember rolling my eyes every time that particular trope was used back then. Obviously, exception handling wasn't very well implemented in those supposedly advanced systems. Humans naturally better at it, got it...

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah, I just remember rolling my eyes every time that particular trope was used back then. Obviously, exception handling wasn't very well implemented in those supposedly advanced systems. Humans naturally better at it, got it...

Somewhat off topic; but if you want to see a rogue A.I. based science fiction film of that era that actually doesn't follow the usual tropes, I recommend , "Colossus: The Forbin Project" (unless of course you've already seen it.)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It would have made more sense if the city computer had simply self-destructed according to its programming because its mission of seeing humanity through the apocalypse was complete. Maybe that was somehow the intention, but it certainly wasn't made clear if it had been.

I see this thread has won renewal.

Somewhat off topic; but if you want to see a rogue A.I. based science fiction film of that era that actually doesn't follow the usual tropes, I recommend , "Colossus: The Forbin Project" (unless of course you've already seen it.)

It's chilling.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Somewhat off topic; but if you want to see a rogue A.I. based science fiction film of that era that actually doesn't follow the usual tropes, I recommend , "Colossus: The Forbin Project" (unless of course you've already seen it.)

Oh yes, I'd agree with that recommendation and there's also Demon Seed, of course.

It would have made more sense if the city computer had simply self-destructed according to its programming because its mission of seeing humanity through the apocalypse was complete. Maybe that was somehow the intention, but it certainly wasn't made clear if it had been.

I agree that would have made more sense. However, I suppose it's a sign of a good film that we are able to make these inferences decades later. I really hadn't bothered to give it much thought and that's perhaps my failing.

I just had another thought - the holograms of Logan (Michael York) were possibly intended to be virtual reality simulations of him that the computer created to analyse whether the answers that he gave would have varied under any other set of circumstances under which he returned from outside. It was the consistency of the results of this somewhat Monte Carlo (or even quantum computational, if remade now?) analysis that revealed the truth of what Sanctuary (movie version) had been intended to be and the stifling AI-controlled tyrany it had evolved into due to the necessity to conserve finite resources. As the resulting state conflicted with its innate programming to nurture the human race, the computer realised its only recourse was to set them free now that the external world had healed.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

How about Logan's Run + Soylent Green + Hunger Games.

When you turn 21, you have to fight to death against other young people--and the losers get turned into food paste!

"Feed your Hunger Games with Soylent Green!"

But based on the ads I saw at the time and the plot description, it sounds like you'e describing "The Island":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)

That being said, I would love to see a Logan's Run remake / reboot -- though nothing can replace the 70s cliche sci-fi that is the original.

 

[Vger23]

I think there is an even more interesting story to be told in the Logan's Run universe, and that is the backstory to what happened in the world, how the City of Domes was established , populated, etc...and what the role / capabilites / directive of the central computer is.

I think there's a fascinating scifi story to be told there about how certain decisions were arrived at in creating an artificial society and environment, under some obvious duress (the potential extinction of humanity for whatever reasons)...and how that society was first formed. How did the lies and lore that the the entire society was based on get established, particularly if you say that the initial population of the City of Domes was selected from the broader population of Earth, for example?

I think it's a fascinating opportunity.

It will never happen of course, but man I'd love to read some fan fiction or something!

 

[FormerLurker]

But based on the ads I saw at the time and the plot description, it sounds like you'e describing "The Island":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)

That being said, I would love to see a Logan's Run remake / reboot -- though nothing can replace the 70s cliche sci-fi that is the original.

My best friend is certain this film, "The Island", is a remake of "Parts: The Clonus Horror".