Logan's Run First Watch

[Christopher]

If I were inclined to say that black people were deliberately excluded from this movie (which I am not inclined to do, by the way)

That's the problem, though. A lot of exclusion isn't deliberate; it's just the unconscious perpetuation of inequalities built into the culture. The people in authority have been conditioned all their lives to default to whiteness and they don't even realize there's anything wrong with that. That's why it needs to be called attention to, why change needs to be actively pushed for -- because you can do something harmful or unfair without realizing it, and I'd like to think that most people would readily choose to stop doing it once they understood the problem. If they refuse to change things even after they've been made aware of the problem, if they willfully deny the problem or double down on the injustice, then it becomes deliberate and malicious.

Again, we are talking about a 40-year-old movie here. This problem was not uncommon at the time. It's still all too common in today's movie industry, but things are changing for the better, though much more so in TV than in features so far.

 

[Marsden]

. Trust me, people have been airing grievances about pop culture since Day One.

The airing of the grievances is one of my favorite parts of Festivus!

One other comment that's less about Logan's Run but it caused me to think it, Jenny Agutter in Logan's run could pass for Black Widow now, there seems like enough resemblance to me to see why they picked her for Black Widow to impersonate in Winter Soldier.

 

[Christopher]

Jenny Agutter in Logan's run could pass for Black Widow now, there seems like enough resemblance to me to see why they picked her for Black Widow to impersonate in Winter Soldier.

I don't see that much resemblance.

 

[Kerock]

Sometimes I really wish there was a dislike button....lol. Really wish this thread was more about the show.
I loved Logan's Run as a teenager, it really filled a niche in me for more Sci Fi. Better than Zardoz or other films of the day. Really got us thinking about the world and future and how fragile this house of cards we live in really is. It was the first time I really thought about AI's as being any kind of threat.

 

[Christopher]

I loved Logan's Run as a teenager, it really filled a niche in me for more Sci Fi. Better than Zardoz or other films of the day. Really got us thinking about the world and future and how fragile this house of cards we live in really is.

I guess if it was your introduction to post-apocalyptic or dystopian SF, I can see how it would've made an impact, but it was far from the era's only movie on those subjects, and there were others that did it better (and plenty more than did it worse, of course).

It was the first time I really thought about AI's as being any kind of threat.

Hmm... that raises a question the film doesn't really answer. Is the ruling computer really an AI with its own will, like Colossus or Skynet? Or is it just a dumb machine acting out the rigid programming of the humans who established the society? To me, it seems more likely to be the latter, given how limited and mechanistic its responses were and how poorly it copes with conflicting input. There's also Box, of course, but his actions are even more clearly just a limited, inflexible program being misapplied -- he was built to put organics shipped from the city into cold storage, and he lacked enough intelligence to distinguish between doing it to "fish and plankton and sea greens and protein from the sea" and doing it to human beings.

So I don't think I'd really blame the computers for the state of this society. They're just acting as humans built them to act, unaware that the results are harmful to humanity. Thus, I don't think this really falls into the "evil AI" genre. Unless it's the evil of putting a civilization under the control of mindless machines instead of human judgment, but that's less about the evils of AI and more about the evils of dehumanizing society.


By the way, when you said "about the show," I'm not sure whether you meant the TV series or the movie, since you seem to be talking about the movie after that. But anyway, it got me curious to see if I could find the TV series somewhere, and I just requested the DVD set from the library. So I should be able to comment on the series eventually, though it's interlibrary loan, so it won't be right away.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I question whether they were clearly seen. Did someone with so-so eyesight in the last row see it clearly? I don't know because I didn't see it in the theater. All I know is after 20 or 30 viewings I never noticed it. So I say it is not clear at all. I don't think I'm the only one who missed it

And? Others did notice the extras, and I've posted earlier, I did when watching this in the theatres in 1976.

and until I read this thread, I never thought about race when watching this movie.

...and the filmmakers did not intend Logan's Run to inspire and/or be a comment on race in a dystopian future.

If I were inclined to say that black people were deliberately excluded from this movie (which I am not inclined to do, by the way) I could easily say that they deliberately hid a couple of black people in there so they could then jump all over anyone who accused them of leaving them out.

...and that's a game the filmmakers were not playing, as they were not engaging in race politics/experiments and would not invite that on a production far removed from that kind of content.

I'm curious if any of them are even in the credits. Heck, "timid girl" could just as well have been a black girl instead of a ultra white blond.

Most MGM films of the 1970's did not list every extra. For example, the horror movie House of Dark Shadows (1970) had extras in the party scene and a number of extras as police officers, but next to none were given on-screen credit, and that's a film with a much smaller cast size than Logan's Run--a production that had to create an environment that would play as a city's population.

Back to the main problem: preconceived grievances jumped to entirely false conclusions, whether it was about the extras or the intent of the Box character. Without evidence or justifiable cause for complaint (which needs to be based on...evidence), all you are left with is someone with an agenda ready to damn a production. When called out for that behavior, in comes the backpedaling, but the damage is done since someone was ready and waiting to see nonexistent "crimes" and judge accordingly. Again, I'm well aware of films that had subtle or overt racist intent and/or messaging, but it was not Logan's Run.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

And? Others did notice the extras, and I've posted earlier, I did when watching this in the theatres in 1976.

I'm confused what you mean by asking 'And?" so I'm not sure how to answer. All I can say is that I understand that you and others did notice the extras. It seems to me that because you noticed, you think it was clear and obvious. i'm just saying that I did not notice, so naturally I don't think it was clear and obvious. I wanted to point out that it wont be clear to everyone depending on several factors that I mentioned. I really had to look hard to see it even after being told they are there. I looked at my ripped copy and it is truly impossible to see it there. I looked on Netflix and was able to barely make it out, but I would never see it unless I was looking for it. It is clearer on my DVD, but still not something I would notice unless close to the TV with my glasses on. I then looked at my blueray with reading glasses on 1 foot from the TV and I will say it was clear and I saw several black extras that I could not see before. But, I never watch a movie or TV this way. If there is a crowd scene, then i see the forest and not the trees because it seems to me that they are just trying to show that a crowd is there. Call me unobservant or anything else, but some people are like that. Consider also that I didn't see it in the theater but saw it on TV so very many times, and I doubt the crowd was clearly visible with the poor quality of pictures back then, snowy reception and ghosting off the water tower. So, this created a long standing impression as well.

Does any of this have significance? It does not to me, but still it is interesting to know the extras in the crowd are more diverse than I thought. So, the only reason I bring it up is because I don't think that something that is not easy for everyone to see should be the basis to say someone has a particular type of glasses on, although maybe it's ok to blame them for not wearing their glasses when watching the movie.

Otherwise I'm fine with all of your arguments, opinions and facts and countering other opinions and viewpoints. That is the point of many threads, to debate ideas.

 

[Christopher]

And again, a few tokens in the background does not equality make.

 

[Vger23]

"Do we want to use our advanced teleportation technology for public transportation or for hooking up?"

"D'uh. For the hookups, dude. Life is short, you know?"

"Good call."

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm confused what you mean by asking 'And?" so I'm not sure how to answer. All I can say is that I understand that you and others did notice the extras. It seems to me that because you noticed, you think it was clear and obvious. i'm just saying that I did not notice, so naturally I don't think it was clear and obvious. I wanted to point out that it wont be clear to everyone depending on several factors that I mentioned.

I understand you are talking about an actual visual matter. That's a different situation than those who attacked the film for something it did not do, and required...you know...actually watching the film, instead of seeing the world through those agenda-driven glasses. Then, there would be no need for some to be in backpedal mode if they did not drop from On High, cough up nonexistent offenses, forcefully swear there were no black extras, or a character was a "slave", then damned the production. That was not the result of an accident.

 

[Vger23]

Just in case anyone is interested the e-book edition of the novel is now $4.99US.

I never had the chance to read the book, despite being an unapologetic fan of the movie.

I bought this last night, and ripped off about 100 pages. It's a pretty easy read, but definitely different from the film. I'm liking it so far! Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Maurice]

Extras aka background generally receive no screen credit. That hasn't changed. The "cast" generally refers to named characters or speaking roles, so it's fair to say Logan is cast as white as a loaf of Wonder Bread except for Roscoe Lee Brown, whose real face we never see.

And why do some of you say Brown "voiced" Box? He's right there in the costume!

Oh, and for those interested in the differences between the film and book, see section 5 at this LINK.

 

[Gavin70]

Oh, and for those interested in the differences between the film and book, see section 5 at this LINK.

Well that was an interesting read. The downside is that I've now discovered that there was a third book "Logan's Search" which I now need to find and read.

It sounds fairly weird.

Logan's Search deals with Logan going to an alternate reality (with the assistance of aliens) to once again stop the government system he escaped in the first novel, albeit with some minor changes.

 

[RandyS]

Well that was an interesting read. The downside is that I've now discovered that there was a third book "Logan's Search" which I now need to find and read.

It sounds fairly weird.

Amazon has a listing for a book containing all three novels if you can't find "Logan's Search" on its own.

Edit: I tried to copy/paste a link to the page but it's not letting me for some reason. Anyway, go to Amazon, and type William F Nolan's LOGAN: A TRILOGY, and you should find it.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Well that was an interesting read. The downside is that I've now discovered that there was a third book "Logan's Search" which I now need to find and read.

It sounds fairly weird.

Logan's Search deals with Logan going to an alternate reality (with the assistance of aliens) to once again stop the government system he escaped in the first novel, albeit with some minor changes.

Logan's Rerun?

 

[Redfern]

Logan 5 ingests too much fiber resulting in...

"Logan's Runs"

 

[RPOW0614]

Read the book and recently re-watched the movie.
Jenny Agutters nude scenes were a favorite of this 14 year old boy in 1976.
The special effects aren't very special but I don't think they detract from the story.

The book is the same in parts and very different in parts. I read it after seeing the movie and while I enjoyed the book it was kind of like reading a different story set in the same universe. (I'm looking at you Ready Player One)

The TV series was just another in the long line of bad 70's sci-fi shows based on movies.

Recently while cleaning up I came upon a 1" diameter, flat, plastic "jewel". I walked up to my girlfriend, opened my hand showing the jewel in the center of my palm and said "RENEW!"
She had no idea what the hell I was talking about, LOL.

 

[Kor]

This isn't exactly a movie that I relish. But all this discussion has inspired me to give it another viewing soon.
Thank you all.

BTW, here's a screencap showing the demographics of the crowd at the end:
https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/Logans-Run/pages/Logans-Run-199.htm

Kor

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I love Logan's Run for it's undeniable 70s future dystopia style. I also think it's a great movie with a compelling story. I'm quite surprised that this has not yet been remade! There have been rumours around for a while about something in the works, but nothing I've found shows any actual movement on the project. Does anyone know anything?

 

[Steven P Bastien]

BTW, here's a screencap showing the demographics of the crowd at the end:

But, do we know which ones have been to "The New You, 483"?