Living Will - How Do u decide if you still want food & water?

[Ro_Laren]

If you guys recall from my other thread, I'm trying to be proactive and get all my affairs in order even though I'm young and healthy. I was writing up my living will and got stumped with one of the questions. I said I don't want to be on life support if:

• I have an incurable and irreversible condition and cannot survive without artificial life support.
• I am in a permanent coma.
• I am in a persistent vegetative state.

But then the next question was, "In the situations where you do not want life support, would you still like to have food and water (tube feeding)?" I have no idea how to answer this question. I don't want to lay there feeling like I'm starving or "dehydrating" to death. But, can you really feel that? I know that food and water can prolong the agony of both me and my family. What are your thoughts? How would you make this decision?

 

[JarodRussell]

Of course you want tubing. Artificial life support means you're on a heart/lung machine that does the breathing and blood pumping for you. If all that still works well, you certainly don't want to starve to death.

 

[BillJ]

Of course you want tubing. Artificial life support means you're on a heart/lung machine that does the breathing and blood pumping for you. If all that still works well, you certainly don't want to starve to death.

Agreed.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I have an incurable and irreversible condition and cannot survive without artificial life support.
I am in a permanent coma.
I am in a persistent vegetative state.

If I was suffering from the last two of these things I wouldn't want tube feeding. If I was suffering from the first condition hopefully I would be able to communicate whether I wanted tube feeding or not.

 

[Ro_Laren]

Of course you want tubing. Artificial life support means you're on a heart/lung machine that does the breathing and blood pumping for you. If all that still works well, you certainly don't want to starve to death.

Agreed.

I read it differently then the way you guys (or gals) are. For example, if you are in a coma that you have no hopes to recover from, and are taken off of life support, do you want them to keep tube feeding you and hydrating you until you die? The same goes for if you are in a vegetative state... if you're taken off of life support, do you want them to keep feeding and hydrating you until you die.

^ at least that was the way I was reading it...

 

[RoJoHen]

Can a comatose person feel hunger? If yes, then keep feeding me.

 

[scotpens]

. . . if you are in a coma that you have no hopes to recover from, and are taken off of life support, do you want them to keep tube feeding you and hydrating you until you die? The same goes for if you are in a vegetative state... if you're taken off of life support, do you want them to keep feeding and hydrating you until you die.

If you’re in a persistent or permanent vegetative state, you ARE effectively dead. You’re alive only in name.

Under those circumstances, I would not want the shell of my body sustained by artificial means, including being supplied with food and water through a tube.

 

[Ghost07]

I watched a friend of mine die. She was in a coma, and they took her off life support, but then decided to stop feeding her. She loved strawberries, so they took a Q-tip dipped in strawberries and moistened her lips with it; each time they did, she would move her tongue across her lips. I think she liked the taste. I can't tell you how much this bothered me; it got to the point where, when I went home, I would pig out on anything I could find, because just knowing she wasn't being fed anything made me so hungry, I couldn't stop myself.

It took her seventeen days to die. I felt like I was watching her being tortured. My feelings are God will take you when He wants you, and continuing feeding won't make that much difference; except, maybe, those watching you die might not feel like they're watching you being tormented.


I wouldn't want them bringing me back, or keeping me on life support, but I don't think I want them to starve me to death, either.

 

[T'Girl]

I am in a permanent coma.

If I was suffering from the last two of these things I wouldn't want tube feeding.

Problem there are people who have recovered (woken up from) "permanent" comas before.

My mother and one of my sisters have a medical power of attorney for me, with my mother in the first position. I've told them both what I wanted, under which circumstances.

1) Basically, keep me alive until there is no longer a reasonable
chance of my coming out the "the other side."

2) I'm willing to endure pain, if I'm going to recover "eventually."

3) Use you best judgement.

I have the medical power of attorney (and in some cases general power of attorney) for all my brothers and sisters, they know that I'll follow their wishes and not my own mind, if it comes time to "pull the plug."

 

[kythe]

Today, a brain perfusion scan (CT scan of the brain) can be performed to determine brain death. It is possible for someone to be kept "alive" indefinately with machines to breathe for you and feed you, and there is no possibility of recovery. Generally, tests of reflexes and responses will be done frequently to determine level of consciousness, and they are fairly accurate in determining a person's state.

But the brain perfusion scan is considered most conclusive. It determines level of blood flow to the brain and any brain damage that has ensued from the person's state. If a perfusion scan indicates brain death but the body is still intact on machines, the person is a viable organ donor. They will not be returning to this life.

 

[Ro_Laren]

If you guys recall from my other thread, I'm trying to be proactive and get all my affairs in order even though I'm young and healthy. I was writing up my living will and got stumped with one of the questions. I said I don't want to be on life support if:

• I have an incurable and irreversible condition and cannot survive without artificial life support.
• I am in a permanent coma.
• I am in a persistent vegetative state.

But then the next question was, "In the situations where you do not want life support, would you still like to have food and water (tube feeding)?" I have no idea how to answer this question. I don't want to lay there feeling like I'm starving or "dehydrating" to death. But, can you really feel that? I know that food and water can prolong the agony of both me and my family. What are your thoughts? How would you make this decision?

So, I was doing my Living Will through LegalZoom, and there Customer Service people don't seem to know what they're doing. I talked to a rep on the phone and he said that the question, "In the situations where you do not want life support, would you still like to have food and water (tube feeding)?" does not apply to being taken off of life support when you are suffering from:

... an incurable and irreversible condition and cannot survive without artificial life support.
... a permanent coma.
... a persistent vegetative state.

He said it had to do with being in a temporary coma or something (as in you got in a car wreck & you will recover- do you want to be tube fed and hydated in the meantime?). The guy sounded like he wasn't even sure of what he was talking about so I e-mailed LegalZoom. The person that replied to my e-mail said that the question does have to do with the three points above (and not a temporary situation). When I told the e-mail rep what the phone rep said, the e-mail rep's reply was, "I apologize if your were previously , I am not able to determine why your were previously misinformed [sic]." This is not very comforting.

I'm tempted to ask for a refund. The LegalZoom reps apparently are not on the same page and are giving bad advice. That is very disconcerting seeing as their advice affects life and death situations.

 

[seven_of_nineski]

^ Sounds scary that they don't seem to know what they're doing.

 

[kythe]

I don't know anything about the company you are trying to go through or which ones would be better, and unfortunately I've never made a living will either. I am an LPN though (licensed practical nurse), and have worked in a variety of long-term care settings. I've seen people go through these things.

If you are young, you probably want all life saving measures. If you are in good health, your chances of surviving severe injury are higher anyway, and most young people have a strong desire to live as long as possible. As people age, suffer from chronic or painful diseases, or become disabled, sometimes their priorities change in how they view life-saving measures. This is really an individual decision no one else can make for you.

For what it's worth, being tube fed isn't necessarily on the same level of "intervention" as, say, breathing on a ventilator. For instance, there are people with serious digestive problems who live their entire lives on feeding tubes (often called g-tube, PEG tube, j-tube, depending on the type), and are still able to maintain quality of life. The part of the tube that is in the person's abdominal area can be hidden under clothes, a person can go out in public in most circumstances without it being obvious to others that they have a feeding tube. Depending on what kind of tube they have, they may not be able to go swimming or wear tight clothing, but those are often the only restrictions.

I know you are talking about a temporary life-saving measure, not a permanent situation. I'm just trying to put things into perspective though. Even if you are determined to be in a vegetative state or brain dead, being removed from a feeding tube is not necessarily the same as "starving" to death. People can be kept comfortably sedated as their body is shutting down, it's not like you will be left alone just because this decision has been made. When people die natural deaths of old age or disease, there comes a point toward the end where they simply stop eating, and it can be days from that time until they actually pass away. This isn't necessarily painful, it's just part of dying. Even if a person if dying of an injury and a decision is made on their behalf to let them go, this process can be simulated.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's possible to have permanent loss of most brain function but still be able to breathe (since it's an automatic brain function). In that situation, if you are taken off a respirator, you'd still be in the same state you would be otherwise. You won't die unless you're no longer given food and water.

Really, life support is too vague. Does it just mean a respirator or does it also mean food and water. The question is, in those three situations named, if you are capable of breathing on your own but nothing else, do you want to remain in that condition? If yes, then say you still want food and water. If no, then don't. If you are incapable of surviving without a respirator, you don't need to worry about food or water because death will be in minutes not days.

 

[JiNX-01]

I would prefer to be granted the same treatment that my cat would get if she was terminally ill. Give me a shot that stops my heart cold and call the funeral home.

Then I don't have to worry about whether I'll be kept alive with food and fluids or whether I'm going to be left to die of starvation and dehydration.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Only a couple of states let you do that, though.

 

[propita]

So, I was doing my Living Will through LegalZoom, and there Customer Service people don't seem to know what they're doing.

I'm tempted to ask for a refund. The LegalZoom reps apparently are not on the same page and are giving bad advice. That is very disconcerting seeing as their advice affects life and death situations.

^ Sounds scary that they don't seem to know what they're doing.

I believe that LegalZoom has been cited as practicing law without a license. Or allowing it. That's a no-no.

 

[Alex1939]

If you guys recall from my other thread, I'm trying to be proactive and get all my affairs in order even though I'm young and healthy. I was writing up my living will and got stumped with one of the questions. I said I don't want to be on life support if:

• I have an incurable and irreversible condition and cannot survive without artificial life support.
• I am in a permanent coma.
• I am in a persistent vegetative state.

But then the next question was, "In the situations where you do not want life support, would you still like to have food and water (tube feeding)?" I have no idea how to answer this question. I don't want to lay there feeling like I'm starving or "dehydrating" to death. But, can you really feel that? I know that food and water can prolong the agony of both me and my family. What are your thoughts? How would you make this decision?

Research "locked in syndrome" or watch the movie "The Diving Bell and the Butterfly".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked_in_syndrome

I would answer "no" I would not still like to have food and water. If Euthanasia were legal that would be a better alternative but starving may be preferable to that type of life. (obviously its personal preference)


I also recommend T'Girl's advice. If you have someone you trust enough allow them to make the decision for you.