So glad I started this thread so we could all get some more glimpses inside the walking Trekopedia that is Nasat. Great job as always man!
Lit-verse Star Charts
- Thread starter ryan123450
- Start date
An online map would certainly have other advantages besides making 3D or 4D a possibility. The ability to superimpose data on a very basic map would be nifty: "show borders"; "show shipping lanes"; "show battle sites"; even "add locations one by one, in order of episodic appearance"...
Nasat's work really is outstanding! I'm almost tempted to buy a new batch of novels now, having been on a hiatus for the past four or five years.
Timo Saloniemi
Nasat's work really is outstanding! I'm almost tempted to buy a new batch of novels now, having been on a hiatus for the past four or five years.
Timo Saloniemi
These are variations on the same thing, I gather.
If this is what you mean, it seems to be loosely based on the Star Charts cartography, with some adjustments for game purposes.
All very different, from the modern ones and from one another. The Star Trek Maps were based on real star positions as estimated at the time, but the modern maps are based on more accurate stellar data; also, of course, our understanding of the Trek universe has changed a great deal since then.
And I don't recall the SFTM's maps being printed in any novels.
The STO map is based on the Star Charts. I've got a picture somewhere where the STO map is overlaid on the Charts.
However, Cryptic had to move around some starts and nebulae to suit the game, e.g. the Betreka Nebula has a different location. Some of it can be easily explained, e.g. Betreka is large and stretches across and beyond the plane depicted on the maps; others have to be accepted as different, like the location of Iconia. After all, STO maps are meant to be simplified maps.
Most recently, STO introduced the Delta Quadrant and based it clearly on the Charts but made some deviations.
There are a few maps on Memory Beta that allow for comparison.
Stellar Cartography is basically an updated Charts but has not been referenced yet in STO.
I can't say anything about the rest because I don't have them.
Stellar Cartography is essentially just a stylized update of the Star Charts - or, at least, the Alpha and Beta quadrant "local space" portions of such (missing are Gamma quadrant, Delta quadrant and the expanded view of Alpha/Beta that showed us Shelia, Beta Orionis, Antares, etc.).
A few systems were moved slightly, sometimes for purposes of accuracy, e.g. Gamma Eridon is now on the Klingon/Romulan border as was logically implied on screen, rather than deep in Klingon space; Nequencia is now correctly outside of Romulan space near Carraya rather than inside; Algeron has moved slightly for reasons I'm not certain of. Funnily enough, Babel and Berengaria remain where they were, despite Enterprise season four implying they should be somewhere different. (Note that the novels have basically kept the latter where it is, too). Then there's the odd Denobula situation, wherein "Denobula Prime" is now in Beta Quadrant but Denobula Triaxa remains where it was. I can only assume that this is intended to tie in with Federation: The First 150 Years and its Romulan War history, but I ignore it (and the novels have stayed with Denobula Triaxa in its original placement, too).
Also, the update adds these systems missing from the original Star Charts:
Adarak Prime
Archer's Planet (Near Gamma Trianguli, as it should be)
Archer (correction from Loracus; second Archer near Klingon space remains)
Aschelan
Azati Prime
Boradis
Delphic Expanse (With explanation for its size and how it fits relative to the rest of the map. Of the systems inside the expanse, only Azati Prime and New Xindus are included, presumably as the most important)
Denobula Prime (As noted, Denobula Triaxa is in fact where it's always been, so we have two Denobulas for unfathomable reasons)
Devos (Can't the Son'a protect it?)
El-Gatark
Gamma 7A (and zone of darkness)
Guardian of Forever
Hobus
Holna
Kepla
Kimben (From Countdown, that one!)
Mirada (Confirming Miradorn space as being near the Cardassians)
New Xindus
Makus
Murasaki 312 (and its vortex thingie)
Relva
Rictor Prime
Sybaron
Tibor Nebula
Turkana
Trialas (good to see Enterprise season four hasn't been forgotten; see also Verex and Vintaak, below).
Vanguard Station (woo!)
Ventani
Verex
Vintaak
Planets of note still missing include Lissepia (it always struck me as odd that almost every system and race associated with the Cardassian sphere of influence made it in, but this, a planet and people mentioned multiple times and implicitly quite prominent, was left off), Luria (Morns are born here, we can't just forget about it!), Castal and Galen near the Talarian border and M'Kemas in Tzenkethi space (a shame that while the Ferengi, Cardassian, Klingon and Romulan regions were filled in meticulously, these lesser powers weren't), and worlds like Arken and Efros (odd that some "movie Federation alien worlds", e.g. Kazar, Aaamazzara, Zaran, made it in, but others didn't). Also, many Enterprise season two systems, like the Enolian worlds, Arkonia and Vissia, didn't make it in.
A few systems were moved slightly, sometimes for purposes of accuracy, e.g. Gamma Eridon is now on the Klingon/Romulan border as was logically implied on screen, rather than deep in Klingon space; Nequencia is now correctly outside of Romulan space near Carraya rather than inside; Algeron has moved slightly for reasons I'm not certain of. Funnily enough, Babel and Berengaria remain where they were, despite Enterprise season four implying they should be somewhere different. (Note that the novels have basically kept the latter where it is, too). Then there's the odd Denobula situation, wherein "Denobula Prime" is now in Beta Quadrant but Denobula Triaxa remains where it was. I can only assume that this is intended to tie in with Federation: The First 150 Years and its Romulan War history, but I ignore it (and the novels have stayed with Denobula Triaxa in its original placement, too).
Also, the update adds these systems missing from the original Star Charts:
Adarak Prime
Archer's Planet (Near Gamma Trianguli, as it should be)
Archer (correction from Loracus; second Archer near Klingon space remains)
Aschelan
Azati Prime
Boradis
Delphic Expanse (With explanation for its size and how it fits relative to the rest of the map. Of the systems inside the expanse, only Azati Prime and New Xindus are included, presumably as the most important)
Denobula Prime (As noted, Denobula Triaxa is in fact where it's always been, so we have two Denobulas for unfathomable reasons)
Devos (Can't the Son'a protect it?)
El-Gatark
Gamma 7A (and zone of darkness)
Guardian of Forever
Hobus
Holna
Kepla
Kimben
(From Countdown, that one!)Mirada (Confirming Miradorn space as being near the Cardassians)
New Xindus
Makus
Murasaki 312 (and its vortex thingie)
Relva
Rictor Prime
Sybaron
Tibor Nebula
Turkana
Trialas (good to see Enterprise season four hasn't been forgotten; see also Verex and Vintaak, below).
Vanguard Station (woo!)
Ventani
Verex
Vintaak
Planets of note still missing include Lissepia (it always struck me as odd that almost every system and race associated with the Cardassian sphere of influence made it in, but this, a planet and people mentioned multiple times and implicitly quite prominent, was left off), Luria (Morns are born here, we can't just forget about it!), Castal and Galen near the Talarian border and M'Kemas in Tzenkethi space (a shame that while the Ferengi, Cardassian, Klingon and Romulan regions were filled in meticulously, these lesser powers weren't), and worlds like Arken and Efros (odd that some "movie Federation alien worlds", e.g. Kazar, Aaamazzara, Zaran, made it in, but others didn't). Also, many Enterprise season two systems, like the Enolian worlds, Arkonia and Vissia, didn't make it in.
I still remember my first forays into Star Trek Literature.
The first book I read were Dreams of the Raven, Black Fire, and episodes anthologies translated into Czech and at the end there were either the maps or the Fleet ship classification. Can not say why.
Thank you all.
So the change from Maps to Star Charts stems from more accurate real data - so what does it make incompatible with in-universe?
Can we not just change the angle or bend them to make them all "true"?
I would love to see a Star Charts book with the major novel-exclusive states: the Holy Order of the Kinshaya, the New Thallonian Protectorate, the Regnancy of the Carnelian Throne, the Vomnin Confederacy, the Goeg Domain, the Norolob Republic, and the Confederacy of the Worlds of the First Quadrant.
And a mirror universe version from the Terran Empire era to the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance era to the Galactic Commonwealth era would be especially interesting.
And a mirror universe version from the Terran Empire era to the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance era to the Galactic Commonwealth era would be especially interesting.
Or maybe an addition that expands on the inclusion of Vanguard in Stellar Cartography and throws a few of the more prominent novel 'verse planets in there amid the rest. Along with, as you say, novel-only states. It might help gain a few readers, perhaps? Someone wondering who these Thallonians or Kinshaya are, where Tezwa and Cort come from, etc., and then tracking down the books?
I can dream.
Ah, I see. That wasn't the case with their original English editions.
That's a different matter. The changes in real astrocartography are one reason for the differences between the old maps and the new maps. The other reason is the profound changes in our understanding of the Trek universe thanks to the sequel series. Remember, when Star Trek Maps came out in 1980, all we had were the original and animated series and the first movie. So they contain nothing from TNG or DS9 or VGR or ENT, no Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta Quadrant notations, no Cardassians or Ferengi or Betazoids, no Mutara Nebula or Qo'noS or Khitomer... really very little of the Trek universe as we know it today, and a different understanding of the size of the Federation and its relation to Klingon and Romulan space.
Nasat: Could the change in Denobula have anything to do with the fact that Star Charts itself screwed up with it? Star Charts made the common error of confusing Iota Boötis (or ι Boötis) with 44 Boötis (or i Boötis). It identifies Denobula as Iota Boötis, but its location on the map, its multiplicity, and the stellar classes of its component stars correspond to 44 Boötis. Could you check if "Denobula Prime" happens to correspond to Iota Boötis?
Edit: I was going to grab you the specific coordinates of Iota Boötis to help out with that, but no that wouldn't be it after all; Iota Boötis would also be in the Alpha Quadrant.
Edit: I was going to grab you the specific coordinates of Iota Boötis to help out with that, but no that wouldn't be it after all; Iota Boötis would also be in the Alpha Quadrant.
I've recently just found a copy of Star Trek Maps online in downloadable PDF format. (Google is your friend.) It's been fascinating to go over it.
It's my impression, looking at the maps, that while Star Trek Maps is source material for FASA's material and the 1980s novelverse, it is not very compatible with the Star Trek universe as it currently exists. There may be nods to it in the current continuity--Romii as a populous and old Romulan colony world comes to mind--but that's it.
I've had a physical copy of STM since it came out, but it's so worn out that these days, if I want to consult it, I use the PDF version so that I don't have to risk tearing the maps any worse.
Random trivia: The Star Trek Maps layout of Klingon space (and a few other bits) crops up in IDW's Nero comic, among Clavell's scribblings.
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