list of boyfriend rules

[rhubarbodendron]

No, Emilia, I don't. Quite the opposite, actually. But it is a fact of life we can't - and must not - ignore, that some people have a higher social rank than others and that sadly this is what counts mostly, in every day life and social interactions. Don't blame me for it: it's what society itself has created. And neither you nor I can't help being part of that society as much as we might dislike it.

I could just as well have said "lower ranking" or "servants" or "lower classes" which all three are commonly accepted but imo somewhat rude phrases. Instead, I attempted to phrase it as politely, politically correct and educatedly as possible. If this my best effort still disn't satisfy you, I'm sorry.


"people working in certain parts of the service sector of the society" is a very good way to paraphrase it. Thank you!! It only does seem a trifle long.


At any rate, apart from the phrasing we see completely eye to eye, don't we? We both loathe men who treat others less fortunate ones with disdain or rudeness.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Celebrities and high up politicians have a "higher social rank", because we put them there. Everyone else is equal, or maybe it's just me living in a country that prides itself on egalitarianism. I've never seen or heard anyone viewing a "a waiter, a shop clerk or a cleaner" as lower than them. And when people are shits to waiters and shop clerks it's because they hate delays or they are shitty with the product, NOT because they look down on that person as lesser social rank.

Yes you can tell if a "nice guy" is really not nice if they are shitty towards people in the service industries but it doesn't automatically follow that this has anything to do with social rank. It does read as though you inserted social rank in there when the point could have been made without it, and it makes it sound like you see the world that way yourself.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

partially, I do. I am not certain if I can explain it properly but I'll try my best. please be patient with me.

I think that we are very far from all being equal. I agree that in theory we ought to be, but in practize there are big differences: a dentist is held in higher esteem than a road sweeper and a teacher is generally more respected than a secretary. A pilot will always think himself superior to a hobo.
On my visits to the US I got the impression that there a person's bank account is the main factor when it comes to social rank / general esteem.
In Europe, it seems to me, it is more dependent on a person's education.

But on both continents, whether we like it or not, there is a difference in how we value people. And this difference in esteem is what I define as social rank. Yes, it is unfair. But people are different and therefore you can't make them all equal. It has been tried and all attempts failed. So I fear we must accept it as a fact of life and try to change it gradually.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I'm not picking a fight. I just disagree with you.

No, Emilia, I don't. Quite the opposite, actually. But it is a fact of life we can't - and must not - ignore, that some people have a higher social rank than others.

No, it's a social construct perpetuated by people like you who think in these terms (while enjoying their privilege). It's not "a fact of life" for all of us. Many of us actually don't consider people working in the service industry as "socially inferior".

Don't blame me for it: it's what society itself has created. And neither you nor I can't help being part of that society

Society changes all the time, you know. It's not a rigid entity that never evolves. And how certain jobs are viewed in societies actually differs a lot between cultures. Just look at the high regard for skilled workers (Facharbeiter) and engineers in Germany compared to what they're viewed as in the US.
The same is true for "class" (people still use that term?) as an evolving, fluid concept. As a social historian I find your simplistic view on society and how it evolves a little nauseating.

I could just as well have said "lower ranking" or "servants" or "lower classes" which all three are commonly accepted but imo somewhat rude phrases.

Bavaria must be some sort of parallel universe. I never hear people use these terms and expect them to be "commonly accepted".

Nobody else took offense

Apparently you're wrong here.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

There is a big difference between acknowledging these disparities exist and either actively supporting them or essentially throwing up your hands and saying "there's nothing we can do about it."

I think it's pretty offensive to say, "some people are valued more than others and that's just how it is."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't treat anyone poorly because of their station in life. I'm courteous to everyone, whether they are a janitor, fast-food worker, retail employee, engineer, middle-manager, or CEO. (I may have to restrain myself from smacking CEOs about, though.) I don't think the CEO is worth more as a human being than the guy who makes my burger. We're all human. Anyone's worth to me has fuck all to do with their paycheck.

It would be one thing if this was a language issue and you just inadvertently used denigrating terms for people in less prestigious positions because you didn't know how to express it in a nuanced way in English, but you've now tripled-down on it and made it pretty clear you really do think it's at least tolerable that people are valued differently in such profoundly unfair ways. Maybe you think it's an acceptable state of affairs but I don't, and clearly others here don't, as well. The least one can do is not actively support it by using terms like "social inferiors."

 

[{ Emilia }]

Maybe you think it's an acceptable state of affairs but I don't, and clearly others here don't, as well. The least one can do is not actively support it by using terms like "social inferiors."

That's my beef with this, really. Using terms like this shapes the discourse and helps perpetuate these disgusting social constructs. That Rhub either isn't aware of that or chooses to ignore it is sad.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I think you mistake respect for the hard work and the smarts becoming a dentist requires with actual valuing of a person. Because I respect those aspects of someone who completed medical school doesn't mean I subtract how I view anyone else. The dentist is not above a secretary, they just have some extras I know about them that I agree show they worked hard and were smart. It would not be a common experience in my country for people to view this as hierarchical with one above the other.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I think you mistake respect for the hard work and the smarts becoming a dentist requires with actual valuing of a person. Because I respect those aspects of someone who completed medical school doesn't mean I subtract how I view anyone else. The dentist is not above a secretary, they just have some extras I know about them that I agree show they worked hard and were smart. It would not be a common experience in my country for people to view this as hierarchical with one above the other.

Agreed. And I can assure you that it's also not "common experience" in other countries. Not everybody here thinks in terms of "socially inferiors".

 

[RoJoHen]

I've never seen or heard anyone viewing a "a waiter, a shop clerk or a cleaner" as lower than them. And when people are shits to waiters and shop clerks it's because they hate delays or they are shitty with the product, NOT because they look down on that person as lesser social rank.

It happens. I'm a bartender, and two of the most common questions I get from random customers are "So what do you really want to do for a living?" or "Do you have a real job besides this?"

Because, to them, working in a bar or restaurant doesn't count as a "real" job.

 

[selina]

After I had returned home from my gap year I worked as a waitress in a posh hotel. I didn't like it. Most hotel guests were businessmen and I was quite a few times under the impression that they were looking down on me. Of course, that's 15 years or so ago, so things might have changed. But I doubt it. There will always be people who think they are better than others. Not that this okay.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

It happens. I'm a bartender, and two of the most common questions I get from random customers are "So what do you really want to do for a living?" or "Do you have a real job besides this?"

Because, to them, working in a bar or restaurant doesn't count as a "real" job.

while it's actually a whole lot of real jobs: bartender, psychologist, nurse, best friend, cleaner, entertainer, diplomat, to name only a few.
Is it a bartender secret or are you allowed to tell? How do you guys manage to memorize all these hundreds of recipes? I already have trouble remembering my shopping list *blush*.


{{{Selina}}} That's why I prefer country inns to posh hotels. Far nicer clienteel.
It makes me so furious if people not only look down on others but actually don't notice them at all. They say a good waiter is invisible, but that doesn't mean I should treat him as if he or she didn't exist. Waiting on people is an art and should be respected and honoured.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I've never seen or heard anyone viewing a "a waiter, a shop clerk or a cleaner" as lower than them. And when people are shits to waiters and shop clerks it's because they hate delays or they are shitty with the product, NOT because they look down on that person as lesser social rank.

It happens. I'm a bartender, and two of the most common questions I get from random customers are "So what do you really want to do for a living?" or "Do you have a real job besides this?"

Because, to them, working in a bar or restaurant doesn't count as a "real" job.

The hospitality industry is so big in Aus now that courses in it are offered in high school that give you credit to doing college courses in it. Many schools have huge kitchens set up as a part of this. A lot of my family works or has worked in hotels, restaurants, cafes and this kind of treatment would be a very rare event (and actually, only from tourists..)

 

[Tora Ziyal]

It reminds me of this comic that has probably been seen everywhere: http://imgur.com/a/RmAjE?gallery

Fantastic comic, J. Allen!

 

[RoJoHen]

Is it a bartender secret or are you allowed to tell? How do you guys manage to memorize all these hundreds of recipes? I already have trouble remembering my shopping list *blush*.

The secret is repetition. You only memorize recipes by making them over and over and over and over again.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

Still an admirable talent. As is most barkeepers' excellent memory for faces.

 

[bbailey861]

A good bartender rocks. I frequent a small English style pub here in Kingston and the staff are terrific. Low turnover, as well, so I think that also says something about the management.

 

[GalaxyX]

But he decided to take a non sequitur parting shot about atheists to troll tsq even though no one mentioned atheists, because that's the kind of stuff he does when a woman has the gall to reject his sexist, entitled attitude.

The hilarious thing is that the atheist remark was so non sequitur it just left me confused -- I would never have guessed it was an attempt to troll!


Whatevs. The comic J shared is the best, and I wouldn't have seen it if not for this stupid thread.

You posted a Cracked article about how evil evil men are harrasing poor innocent women. So:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/NewWomen.shtml

 

[Amaris]

But he decided to take a non sequitur parting shot about atheists to troll tsq even though no one mentioned atheists, because that's the kind of stuff he does when a woman has the gall to reject his sexist, entitled attitude.

The hilarious thing is that the atheist remark was so non sequitur it just left me confused -- I would never have guessed it was an attempt to troll!


Whatevs. The comic J shared is the best, and I wouldn't have seen it if not for this stupid thread.

You posted a Cracked article about how evil evil men are harrasing poor innocent women. So:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/NewWomen.shtml

Attention members of this Miscellaneous thread: This is "Exhibit A" in the mounting evidence as to why women won't give this poster the time of day. Please take note.

 

[GalaxyX]

The hilarious thing is that the atheist remark was so non sequitur it just left me confused -- I would never have guessed it was an attempt to troll!


Whatevs. The comic J shared is the best, and I wouldn't have seen it if not for this stupid thread.

You posted a Cracked article about how evil evil men are harrasing poor innocent women. So:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/NewWomen.shtml

Attention members of this Miscellaneous thread: This is "Exhibit A" in the mounting evidence as to why women won't give this poster the time of day. Please take note.

Which is why I wasn't going to bother posting anything else on this particular thread. The whole idea of this thread offends me (A laundry list that MEN have to meet *just* to have the privilege to be graced with the presence of a woman).

I would have gone guns a'blazin' if it had been in TNZ, but trying to relax it here in Misc.

As far as your view, it means nothing since you're the puppet of the accepted views here now, like the village idiot.

 

[Amaris]

You posted a Cracked article about how evil evil men are harrasing poor innocent women. So:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/NewWomen.shtml

Attention members of this Miscellaneous thread: This is "Exhibit A" in the mounting evidence as to why women won't give this poster the time of day. Please take note.

Which is why I wasn't going to bother posting anything else on this particular thread. The whole idea of this thread offends me (A laundry list that MEN have to meet *just* to have the privilege to be graced with the presence of a woman).

I would have gone guns a'blazin' if it had been in TNZ, but trying to relax it here in Misc.

As far as your view, it means nothing since you're the puppet of the accepted views here now, like the village idiot.

You try to relax by being misogynistic and unaware of your surroundings?