Lingering Questions from 'The Dark Knight'...

[Frontier]

Anyone who has seen TDK already likely has these same questions on their minds. So it seemed appropriate to, outside of the normal chatter-filled discussions, and the mandatory evaluation and review, we need to have a thread simply to discuss all those loose ends left behind. So if you have a question, or a point confused you, post it here, and we'll all analyze and try to conclude an answer together.

Question 1: Who did Two-Face kill?
Gordon says he killed 5 people. 2 cops. We know he killed the fellow at the bar, forget his exact name. We know he killed Maroni's driver, and we can presume Maroni himself was killed in the crash. I don't know if we can make the leap that he killed the Maroni bodyguard he jumped as Sal was getting into the car. But he was supposed to let Ramirez live; the coin said so. So who was the other cop? And who was the other victim?

Question 2: What is the Fate of Harvey "Two-Face" Dent?
He has a fairly long fall. One that Batman survived; but he had some measure of protection and may also have used training to ease the fall; we know from wrestlers that certain positions can lessen impacts. We also saw what seemed to be a eulogy or memorial for Harvey, his picture in a black frame. So what became of him? They did not make it clear if the fall killed him, or simply knocked him out. If it only knocked him out, how will that be dealt with? Did/does Gordon fake his death and ship him off somewhere? Is he shipped off, known to have been alive? And why would he keep his mouth shut about whom he killed if he's truly off-his-rocker? Batman sacrificed his reputation to preserve Harvey's, but what's the keep Harvey from squashing that with the truth?

I know I have more, but I can't recall them now. How about you?

 

[Neroon]

Did Dent kill Ramirez, the female cop hanging with Gordon for much of the film, who was the other "insider" the Joker had?

As for Dent's fate, I am positive he died. Otherwise, why would Batman make the sacrifice he did and Gordon agree to be a part of the charade? If Dent had survived, then the charade would not hold up.

Just a few clouded attempts at answering your good questions.

 

[Trekker4747]

Did Dent kill Ramirez, the female cop hanging with Gordon for much of the film, who was the other "insider" the Joker had?

Her coin turned up allowing her to live so no he didn't kill her. Unless he de another flip and killed her off-screen. I'm not sure why they needed to peg the deaths on him or Bats they could've just pinned them on The Joker.

One of my "linger questions" is how Bats is going to get back in the good-graces of Gotham and go back to being the one Gordon/the police calls on for trouble. But, I suppose, that'll be answered in the next movie.

Any other major, lingering, questions I have re: the events in the movie I can't think of anything. Other than nagging things like how Batman survived his two or three big jumps/falls (two of which were enough to smash cars) and why the exposition on the new suit making him more vulnerable never paid off.

As for Dent's fate, I am positive he died. Otherwise, why would Batman make the sacrifice he did and Gordon agree to be a part of the charade? If Dent had survived, then the charade would not hold up.

Even if Dent survived they'd still need someone to take the fall for the deaths other than Dent. They needed his credibility to remain intact in order for the prosecutions to go through. If Dent survived they could've locked him up at Arkham under an alias or something to hold up the charade.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I don't think Two-Face killed Ramirez. He lives and breathes the coin and would never go against it.

I also think Two-Face is dead.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I have one, where did he stash the "time-bomb gun" when he used it at the end? Did he have it slung because I don't think that'd fit in his utility belt.

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't think Two-Face killed Ramirez. He lives and breathes the coin and would never go against it.

I also think Two-Face is dead.

But Two-Face WILL re-flip his coin if he doesn't like the result.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Uh, the whole Liu story was confusing and well...didn't make sense

First off that's kidnapping, so Gotham sponsors that. Diplomatic immunity? What was China's response to this because technically they are KIDNAPPING a Chinese nationalist. I don't know about you but there has to be political and military ramifications on this. The United States isn't going to go, oh well, suck it China. We captured one of your guys. And how did they even accept this?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^^ along with the Chinese firearm, I wonder how this film will play in the mainland over there?

 

[Trekker4747]

Uh, the whole Liu story was confusing and well...didn't make sense

First off that's kidnapping, so Gotham sponsors that. Diplomatic immunity? What was China's response to this because technically they are KIDNAPPING a Chinese nationalist. I don't know about you but there has to be political and military ramifications on this. The United States isn't going to go, oh well, suck it China. We captured one of your guys. And how did they even accept this?

He'd only have diplomatic immunity if he was diplomat. It's likely as businessman no such shield was held over him.

And we've really no idea how it was "explained" to China what happened how Liu got back to Gotham. The US/Gotham could've just played a "we don't know how he got here but now that he is we're keeping him" card. We've no idea what the world-politics are like in this universe.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I don't think Two-Face killed Ramirez. He lives and breathes the coin and would never go against it.

I also think Two-Face is dead.

But Two-Face WILL re-flip his coin if he doesn't like the result.

That's true, but I got the impression that he accepted the result in this one case.

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't think Two-Face killed Ramirez. He lives and breathes the coin and would never go against it.

I also think Two-Face is dead.

But Two-Face WILL re-flip his coin if he doesn't like the result.

That's true, but I got the impression that he accepted the result in this one case.

Yeah that's the impression I got as well.

So, really, I'm not sure who-all he killed. When I see the movie again (either tonight or tomorrow) I'll keep an eye out for it.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Uh, the whole Liu story was confusing and well...didn't make sense

First off that's kidnapping, so Gotham sponsors that. Diplomatic immunity? What was China's response to this because technically they are KIDNAPPING a Chinese nationalist. I don't know about you but there has to be political and military ramifications on this. The United States isn't going to go, oh well, suck it China. We captured one of your guys. And how did they even accept this?

He'd only have diplomatic immunity if he was diplomat. It's likely as businessman no such shield was held over him.

And we've really no idea how it was "explained" to China what happened how Liu got back to Gotham. The US/Gotham could've just played a "we don't know how he got here but now that he is we're keeping him" card. We've no idea what the world-politics are like in this universe.

But since many people are like, this is so real...

I think that there would be real ramifications over what happened and well Batman might be now considered a criminal in China (like they want him captured and sent to China). Because I am also assuming now Liu is dead.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think that there would be real ramifications over what happened and well Batman might be now considered a criminal in China (like they want him captured and sent to China). Because I am also assuming now Liu is dead.

Well, I'm not so sure we've extradition treaties TO China either.

And, again, he was just a businessman not a political figure so China's government isn't likely to be all that greatly concerned with him.

It's very unlikely any of this will be touched on again and that whatever Batman did, Gordon did, and what Liu's fate is/was will work itself out.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Problem is, it seemed like Liu was VERY important in Hong Kong. You don't think there will be any ramifications over his death? This would be like if someone kidnapped Bill Gates or the guys that made Google or Steve Jobs! You don't think the US would turn a blind eye to that.

 

[Trekker4747]

Problem is, it seemed like Liu was VERY important in Hong Kong. You don't think there will be any ramifications over his death? This would be like if someone kidnapped Bill Gates or the guys that made Google or Steve Jobs! You don't think the US would turn a blind eye to that.

I'm sure we would. But, know what? It's a movie. As I said it'll never be touched on again so there's no need to worry about it.

We've no idea what the world politics are in that universe, "realisitc" comic book movie or not.

 

[Timby]

I don't think Two-Face killed Ramirez. He lives and breathes the coin and would never go against it.

I also think Two-Face is dead.

But Two-Face WILL re-flip his coin if he doesn't like the result.

I remember that from Batman Forever, but I'm almost positive that in the comics (as well as in The Dark Knight), he binds himself to the result of the first coin flip.

Which is why he doesn't kill Officer Ramirez, but he does knock her the fuck out.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

It still doesn't make sense. They use real life politics in the movie and they talk about corruption and such. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[T'Pers0n]

Tried to resolve the numbers of Two Face's killing spree in second viewing. It still doesn't really make much sense. The first viewing, I only thought he killed 2 people.

1: He is shown killing Wuertz

2: He is shown killing Maroni's driver

3: The seat belt is a device to show Maroni probably dies in the crash

4: Ramirez. Either he lied about the coin toss (maybe someone who actually saw the coin can correct me), or reflipped for a new event that was cut out of the film. Since she is responsible for Rachel, there is no way he was going to leave without killing her. "Live to fight another day". By punching her, could basically be starting a new fight with her (a stretch). But, Gordon did say Dent killed two cops. These are the two cops Dent defames at the beginning of the movie. It has to be Wuertz AND Ramirez no matter how it went down with her. Plus, if she lived the whole cover story would fall apart.

5: Can't figure it out.

 

[jbny67]

I don't think Two-Face killed Ramirez. He lives and breathes the coin and would never go against it.

I also think Two-Face is dead.

But Two-Face WILL re-flip his coin if he doesn't like the result.

I remember that from Batman Forever, but I'm almost positive that in the comics (as well as in The Dark Knight), he binds himself to the result of the first coin flip.

That is the only time that he's ever been shown to flip the coin again. It created quite a stir with Batman fans when that movie came out. Having him filp the coin again and again until he got a desired result went against character history and made the coin itself a bit redundant.

 

[Trekker4747]

My memory must be screwed up because I'm certain that Two Face, from time to time, will re-fllip if he really doesn't like a result. But I'll admit it's been years and years since I've read a Batman comic/watched a cartoon.