Line Officers

[James Wright]

Are both Doctor Crusher & Deanna Troi considered active Line Officers?
They both took and passed the test that permits them to stand a bridge watch.
Crusher even destroyed a Borg ship when she had temporary command of the Enterprise-D!

James

 

[BillJ]

I'm sure they are considered line officers. But any Captain that leaves either one in charge should immediately be relieved of command.

 

[Mysterion]

I'd say they are both specialists who have also qualified to stand watch on the Bridge.

 

[BillJ]

Just another silly concept offered to us by a Next Gen writing staff that was out of gas. Were there not enough trained officers to handle the night watch? That would be silly. So who's career were Crusher/Troi slowing down by wanting playtime on the bridge?

 

[Drake]

I have to agree with the last. This was a case of "we're paying these actors a lot of money to be the stars and we're going to use them." It bears no resemblance to the way actual ships (military or otherwise) are organized. Medical officers and therapists (counselors) are staff specialists and do not stand watch.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Beaming this one over to The Next Generation forum...

 

[Tomalak]

I have to agree with the last. This was a case of "we're paying these actors a lot of money to be the stars and we're going to use them." It bears no resemblance to the way actual ships (military or otherwise) are organized. Medical officers and therapists (counselors) are staff specialists and do not stand watch.

They both clearly had training - we saw Troi do it - so they are obviously qualified. What's the problem?

 

[Drake]

Starfleet operates in mysterious ways. And, at the risk of sounding reasonable, a little cross training never hurt anyone.

 

[James Wright]

I made a mistake when posting my question, I should've asked, "Are Doctor Crusher & Deanna Troi unrestricted line officers?
Being in the medical profession they would/should be restricted.
MY BAD, SORRY!

James

 

[Unicron]

Well, the test Troi took is not a "bridge officer's" test, but a bridge commander's test. It's meant for someone who wants the promotion of commander or above, not merely to be on the bridge itself. That wouldn't make much sense, so they should have referred to it properly since the few details we're given make the context of the test clear. That's why Troi's final choice involved the willingness to sacrifice a crewmate if it meant saving the ship.

So to answer the question, I'd imagine Crusher has more direct authority in the chain as CMO and as a commander, but Troi is in there as well. That command might not be their main division doesn't automatically mean they can't be trained for that capability.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

I have to agree with the last. This was a case of "we're paying these actors a lot of money to be the stars and we're going to use them." It bears no resemblance to the way actual ships (military or otherwise) are organized. Medical officers and therapists (counselors) are staff specialists and do not stand watch.

Just another silly concept offered to us by a Next Gen writing staff that was out of gas. Were there not enough trained officers to handle the night watch? That would be silly. So who's career were Crusher/Troi slowing down by wanting playtime on the bridge?

Also they painted themselvs (sp) Into a corner by having NO women in command position(s) within the lead characters
So they did Recton

 

[BillJ]

I have to agree with the last. This was a case of "we're paying these actors a lot of money to be the stars and we're going to use them." It bears no resemblance to the way actual ships (military or otherwise) are organized. Medical officers and therapists (counselors) are staff specialists and do not stand watch.

Just another silly concept offered to us by a Next Gen writing staff that was out of gas. Were there not enough trained officers to handle the night watch? That would be silly. So who's career were Crusher/Troi slowing down by wanting playtime on the bridge?

Also they painted themselvs (sp) Into a corner by having NO women in command position(s) within the lead characters
So they did Recton

Well they had Tasha Yar as security chief and did so little with the character Denise Crosby left.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, the test Troi took is not a "bridge officer's" test, but a bridge commander's test. It's meant for someone who wants the promotion of commander or above, not merely to be on the bridge itself. That wouldn't make much sense, so they should have referred to it properly since the few details we're given make the context of the test clear. That's why Troi's final choice involved the willingness to sacrifice a crewmate if it meant saving the ship.

So to answer the question, I'd imagine Crusher has more direct authority in the chain as CMO and as a commander, but Troi is in there as well. That command might not be their main division doesn't automatically mean they can't be trained for that capability.

Then why have "bridge" as part of the test title? I would assume anyone in any discipline can get promoted to the rank of commander and above. McCoy and Scotty did.

 

[Drake]

Vice Admiral Toddman from the DS9 episode "The Die Is Cast" served with Starfleet Security and even wore the color for that branch. Other flag officers were mentioned being from other branches, but seem to have worn the command red. Then, of course, there was Admiral McCoy in the TNG pilot, who, I presume, would still be a medical officer. Scotty, even back in the TOS days, was a fully rated "watch keeper" (command rated? bridge rated?) and was considered Enterprise's third in command. Whether this sort of thing was normal in Starfleet or something peculiar to ships named Enterprise is hard to say, but I suspect a captain would have some latitude in permitting his officers to take the courses needed to qualify for such duty. Picard evidently had no qualms about Dr Crusher and Toi doing so. Coming up with "in universe" explanations for things done for dramatic purposes on a television show/movie can be a fascinating hobby.

 

[Timo]

Well, the test Troi took is not a "bridge officer's" test, but a bridge commander's test. It's meant for someone who wants the promotion of commander or above, not merely to be on the bridge itself.

The episode never suggests such a thing. Rather, the test only has two known qualities:

1) it gives the person taking it the clearance to stand bridge watches - a menial task usually performed by the most junior of officers
2) it results in the promotion of Lieutenant Commander Troi to Commander rank, and apparently resulted in the promotion of LtCmdr Crusher to Commander rank as well

If a Lieutenant took that test, she would no doubt become Lieutenant Commander; if an Ensign did, he'd become a Lieutenant (j.g.). Indeed, it appears that for example Dr. Bashir already took such a test at Ensign rank, as he stood watches at Lt.(j.g.) and Lt rank. In contrast, Dr. Pulaski or Dr. McCoy apparently never took such a test, and still attained Commander rank.

The various redshirts and yellowshirts no doubt had this sort of training back in the Academy already, and never had to take a test of this sort after graduation... A red- or yellowshirt Ensign or Lieutenant typically stood watches on Kirk's or Janeway's bridges when there wasn't a plot-furthering crisis going on.

Other flag officers were mentioned being from other branches, but seem to have worn the command red.

However, significantly, no flag officer was said to represent the Medical or Sciences branch, excusing the lack of blue uniforms. And AFAIK, we never quite saw any flag officer who would have been stated to come from Security, either. So we can perfectly well believe that Medical or Sciences Admirals would have worn blue, and Security and Engineer ones yellow in TNG and red in TOS era.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

Being in the medical profession they would/should be restricted.

Why? They are groovy 24th century people, they can multi-task.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Being in the medical profession they would/should be restricted.

Why? They are groovy 24th century people, they can multi-task.

As military thinking goes, it's a conflict of interest. A medical professional's job includes doing everything in his/her power to prevent death. Whereas a commanding officer may have to order men/women to their deaths.

 

[James Wright]

This is off subject just a little bit but, if any of you have TOS novel "Doctors Orders", that's the only time I know of when McCoy commanded the Enterprise!
And if memory serves, McCoy arrested Spock or confined him to his quarters, I think that happened when Spock kidnapped Captain Pike?

James

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There was also a TOS episode (Omega Glory) which featured the USS Exeter's CMO in command of its bridge.

Although I believe he was the last crew member on the ship who was in fact alive, as opposed to a pile of salt, so that would tend to skew the results just a tad.

 

[Unicron]

]
Then why have "bridge" as part of the test title? I would assume anyone in any discipline can get promoted to the rank of commander and above. McCoy and Scotty did.

* shrugs * Maybe they thought it sounded good, I'm not sure. I can definitely see a specific test (or set of tests) for a bridge command officer, someone who is clearly capable of actually commanding the bridge and not just a junior officer working a shift.

The episode never suggests such a thing. Rather, the test only has two known qualities:

1) it gives the person taking it the clearance to stand bridge watches - a menial task usually performed by the most junior of officers
2) it results in the promotion of Lieutenant Commander Troi to Commander rank, and apparently resulted in the promotion of LtCmdr Crusher to Commander rank as well

If a Lieutenant took that test, she would no doubt become Lieutenant Commander; if an Ensign did, he'd become a Lieutenant (j.g.). Indeed, it appears that for example Dr. Bashir already took such a test at Ensign rank, as he stood watches at Lt.(j.g.) and Lt rank. In contrast, Dr. Pulaski or Dr. McCoy apparently never took such a test, and still attained Commander rank.

I'd probably need to rewatch the ep again, Timo, but I might disagree with you here. It's not a simple promotion test, as there are clearly command details mentioned that seem to go along with the specific rank of commander - Troi is seen studying parts of the ship in one scene, and as mentioned the final challenge is her willingness to sacrifice a crewmember to protect the ship and everyone else. The implication is that these are problems specifically associated with command, and not the menial stuff that a junior officer would do. I think this is supported by Crusher, who admitted not thinking much about her rank for a long time and not needing to be a full commander to have many of the same duties and place in the command chain that she does as CMO. But having gone far enough to earn the rank anyway, she has a degree of skill higher than might otherwise be expected.

The various redshirts and yellowshirts no doubt had this sort of training back in the Academy already, and never had to take a test of this sort after graduation... A red- or yellowshirt Ensign or Lieutenant typically stood watches on Kirk's or Janeway's bridges when there wasn't a plot-furthering crisis going on.

Yes, but in TOS that was usually Sulu, who was a key member of the bridge staff already. And he only was in command if Kirk, Spock and Scott weren't available. Much like how Data, being second officer, had a higher place than Troi or Crusher even though they both outranked him. I'm tempted to say Worf might be next in the chain and then perhaps Crusher, but I'm not sure exactly.

Same with Harry Kim, who wanted to branch out in part because of Voyager's unique situation. But in terms of some of the problems mentioned on Troi's test, they were either not qualified or not authorized to take the same sort of actions that a command officer would. At least not in Harry's case. The one main ep I can recall where he was on bridge command, he basically had to get Chakotay as soon as something major came up.