Library Cues Question

[Methuselah Flint]

I understand the need to re-record first season cues for the second season, first/second season cues for the third for copyright (although I believe Zetar used the original Season One Where No Man score...?)

Question - how come they re-recorded cues from episodes already in the season in question, such as Spock's Brain and Elaan of Troyius for Season Three?

(I get certain library cues such as season two's Metamorphosis and Doomsday Machine library cues had a different emphasis on instruments etc, but puzzled why the two examples above, for instance, would not just simply take from the original episode cues if needed to re-use?)

 

[Christopher]

I understand the need to re-record first season cues for the second season, first/second season cues for the third for copyright (although I believe Zetar used the original Season One Where No Man score...?)

As I understand it, that wasn't so much about copyright as about musician's union rules. The requirement to re-record any older music for the new season was a way to make sure the musicians got enough work each year.

Question - how come they re-recorded cues from episodes already in the season in question, such as Spock's Brain and Elaan of Troyius for Season Three?

(I get certain library cues such as season two's Metamorphosis and Doomsday Machine library cues had a different emphasis on instruments etc, but puzzled why the two examples above, for instance, would not just simply take from the original episode cues if needed to re-use?)

Perhaps to give them different endings so they worked better as standalone pieces?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yeah, I'm assuming they wanted to have "buttons" and "sustains" and shorter versions to be more easily used. What's funny is that, from what I've read, the rules stated they couldn't reuse recordings from prior seasons, but they regularly did (as did other TV series). From what understand, they were supposed to actually destroy the tapes... I think Jeff Bond or Neil Bulk mentioned that.

We're fortunate nobody listened...

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Indeed!

Remind me... Are buttons the climatic finite endings, and sustains the ones that fade out?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yes, sir. Exactly.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I can't check my liner notes at work, but if I recall, John Williams' original tapes for the first episode of Lost in Space were destroyed by termites sometime after the series ended. The library cues conducted by Lionel Newman did survive, preserving the sound quality but not the screen-used original performance. Thankfully, I find the Newman cues to be pretty good.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The lost scores were restored from the music stems and released on the La La Land box set. They sound great, all things considered. This was a life saver for me as I never warmed to the Newman library versions

 

[Methuselah Flint]

My only slight niggle to the wanderful TOS boxset from La La Land, is that the scores were re-edited in line with the episode they came from. So for instance, the Enterprise flyby cue after Miranda says "I must know!", (from Is There In Truth) is not the "raw" version, as we have the as-televised merging with the previous cue. I believe it was recorded on its own though, as it is re-used in other season three episodes. There are, of course, other examples.

 

[Talos IV]

I can't check my liner notes at work, but if I recall, John Williams' original tapes for the first episode of Lost in Space were destroyed by termites sometime after the series ended. The library cues conducted by Lionel Newman did survive, preserving the sound quality but not the screen-used original performance. Thankfully, I find the Newman cues to be pretty good.

For their Lost in Space 50th Anniversary Soundtrack Collection, La La Land did present John Williams' original music from that first episode ("The Reluctant Stowaway"). They pulled it from the film stem of the episode. The sound quality isn't as good as the original tapes, but at least it's the Williams version. One of the greatest scores ever, for any TV series.

 

[Ssosmcin]

My only slight niggle to the wanderful TOS boxset from La La Land, is that the scores were re-edited in line with the episode they came from. So for instance, the Enterprise flyby cue after Miranda says "I must know!", (from Is There In Truth) is not the "raw" version, as we have the as-televised merging with the previous cue. I believe it was recorded on its own though, as it is re-used in other season three episodes. There are, of course, other examples.

To piggyback that, my issue isn’t that it was done, but that it’s inconsistent. Some episodes keep cues separate while others join them to create a screen accurate version.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

To piggyback that, my issue isn’t that it was done, but that it’s inconsistent. Some episodes keep cues separate while others join them to create a screen accurate version. It’s like

I didn't know that.
Which episodes don't they do it for?

 

[Ssosmcin]

I think my brain misfired a little as I am now suddenly hard pressed to find a lot of separate cues other than the beginning of The Corbomite Maneuver. What I was thinking, I believe, was that some cues with overlays were recreated and some weren't. For example, Catspaw. The track "Starship/Captain Kirk" has the drum overlay as Jackson tumbles off the transporter platform, which is a separate drum sting used in other episodes and not left on its own elsewhere. However, the nerve pinch music isn't put over "Mace Fight" when Spock uses the pinch on Sulu. Or some library versions of score cues are separate, but for The Doomsday Machine, the library version of "One's Enough" is married to an alternate take of the exit music, so "One's Enough" with the sustain only isn't available. That, I think, is the inconsistency I was referring to.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Ah yes I see what you mean.

It's also a shame that they didn't leave all sweeteners removed from all cues (like Jackson falling), and have them listed separately, (since anyone with basic editing could re-overlay them). An example being the sweetener when Miramanee dies in Paradise Syndrome. It is re-used in Gideon 'raw' , but you can't listen to on its own on the boxset.

 

[Indysolo]

That drum overlay was recorded specifically for the scene.

Neil

 

[Ssosmcin]

All of this, BTW, falls totally under the heading of "Spoiled Fan Problems" because seriously, holy shit 15 CDs of Star Trek original scores. I will never stop being grateful for all of the work that you and everyone did on the monumental task of finding, assembling, mastering and presenting it all. And the addendum of music in the 50th set to make it all truly complete was a cherry on top of a mound of cherries. These scores are the soundtrack of my life, so I just wanted to make that totally clear. There will be editorial choices in every score release that some will say "I wouldn't have done it that way." I know some of the stuff above can sound ungrateful. It's not. I've listened to these regularly since they were released. So, thank you, really.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

All of this, BTW, falls totally under the heading of "Spoiled Fan Problems" because seriously, holy shit 15 CDs of Star Trek original scores. I will never stop being grateful for all of the work that you and everyone did on the monumental task of finding, assembling, mastering and presenting it all. And the addendum of music in the 50th set to make it all truly complete was a cherry on top of a mound of cherries. These scores are the soundtrack of my life, so I just wanted to make that totally clear. There will be editorial choices in every score release that some will say "I wouldn't have done it that way." I know some of the stuff above can sound ungrateful. It's not. I've listened to these regularly since they were released. So, thank you, really.

I totally 100% agree! We are very very lucky to have all this to listen to, and I too listen to these treasures regularly, with awe and gratitude.
Given the nature of Internet forums, I simply put forward a few queries regarding the set. For me, the music is equally memorable and important in my experience of TOS as the acting and narrative, which is why I'm particularly meticulous when it comes to the music. In no way, am I critiscing the boxset or the team who dedicated their time on this wonderful gem. Truly, from the bottom of my heart, I do thank you Neil, and your team!