LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

[serenitytrek1]

I think that one of the unsatisfying dimensions of the Abrams Trek is the distortion of Kirk and Spock's characters--Kirk is a an impulsive and rather mindless guy pure and simple, Spock is an aggressive and rather militaristic hothead.

I don't agree with this at all, and I don't see how you could reasonably make this argument.

To say that Kirk is mindless is just not fair. It is reasonable to say that he is a rogue and sometimes impulsive, but his arc in STID is very much one of an arrogant man being humbled, learning to accept his own fallibility and to make sacrifices for others.

And it's positively absurd to call Spock aggressive and militaristic. It was Spock who objected to the mission to kill Harrison in Star Trek Into Darkness, who stood up against the idea that the militaristic response is the right response and for the idea that no government can just sign a man's death warrant without a trial. (A lesson not well-learned by our real government, by the way -- I loved that part of STID was a criticism of the U.S.'s drone/targeted assassination policy.)

As for giving STID a queer reading...

I think there's a definite subtext to Pine!Kirk and Quinto!Spock's relationship. At least one reviewer did note that Spock's reaction to Dr. Marcus's first appearance was like that of a jealous girlfriend.

Spock was yes jealous and intimated by carol taking his place as first officer . In JJ's universe Spock seems to have an obsession with people and their job roles. He unfairly put uhura on the wrong ship, he gave captain Pike and gave Kirk the death look when
Pike promoted kirk to first officer and now he gets mad and angry about carol been another first officer sharing his job post, However when Spock discovers that carol was a fraud he didn't seem to give a shit about her anymore.


Again notice how Spock didn't care when Jim flirted with two girls in front of him??

I find it sad that people seems to read sex and homosexuality into everything.

Its like in this day and age two guys cant be close anymore without people mostly female fans saying they are secretly homosexuals.

Even Zachary who is gay in real life has tried his best to not be stereotyped as an actor.

Trek can have LGBT characters if they want too. however the character needs too have a huge contribution to the show, his character should not be there just because he is gay. that will be tokenism.

 

[Paris]

^I think you meant "Science officer" and not "First Officer".

 

[serenitytrek1]

^I think you meant "Science officer" and not "First Officer".

Isn't it the same thing?

Trust me, no human being loves to share their jobs with anyone. Talk less less of Spock who is Vulcan.


I know Trek is fiction however it is still a reflection of reality.

There is so much competition in the work force, especially when their is one boss.

I believe this is why there can be only one winner of the Apprentice.

 

[david g]

Christopher, what it comes down to for me is that I no longer recognize Kirk and Spock. Abrams' versions of the characters aren't so much new takes on them as they are regressive fantasies of stock male types--Kirk the frat boy adventurer, Spock the angry intellectual cum violent exotic. Again, the second film does not quite take so stark a stance towards the characters, though I still have no idea who this Spock is or is meant to be.

 

[Christopher]

^I think you meant "Science officer" and not "First Officer".

Isn't it the same thing?

Not at all. Only Spock and T'Pol were both first officer and science officer. Riker and Chakotay weren't. Kira was Sisko's first officer, Dax his science officer. The first officer, or executive officer, is the person responsible for seeing that the captain's orders are carried out, supervising and managing the crew, and the like. It's an administrative post, not a scientific one.

Really, first officer should be such a demanding job by itself that it shouldn't leave room for doubling up as chief science officer. It's only plausible that Spock or T'Pol could do it because their Vulcan mental abilities would let them juggle all that work and responsibility.

Trust me, no human being loves to share their jobs with anyone. Talk less less of Spock who is Vulcan.

The problem there, though, is that the Enterprise doesn't have just one science officer. Even if it didn't have a whole science department with hundreds of scientists aboard, what about different shifts? Even if Carol were assigned as a bridge science officer rather than in some other part of the massive science department, maybe she was the night-shift science officer. It made no sense for Spock to say she was redundant. Even he couldn't be the only scientist aboard.

Christopher, what it comes down to for me is that I no longer recognize Kirk and Spock.

As I've explained, they're supposed to be different, because they're younger. We're seeing a story of their gradual evolution into the characters we recognize.

 

[T'Girl]

Not at all. Only Spock and T'Pol were both first officer and science officer.

It's only plausible that Spock or T'Pol could do it because their Vulcan mental abilities would let them juggle all that work and responsibility.

The argument might be made that while T'Pol was the second ranking officer (and the science officer) she wasn't the NX-01's "XO." She didn't seem to undertake any of the tradition jobs of a executive officer in terms of management.

My impression is that prior to T'Pol's addition to the crew Commander Tucker was the second in command, given his duties as chief engineer, he likely couldn't have also discharged the duties of the executive officer.

I think Captain Archer was basically his own executive officer. The ship didn't have a traditional XO.

 

[Christopher]

^I'd be inclined to agree with you, except that T'Pol was always the second person in the chain of command, even when she wasn't in Starfleet. Every time we saw Archer incapacitated or away, it was T'Pol who took command of the ship. She was the second-in-command, and that means she was the first officer.

 

[borgboy]

As far as implying characters are secretly gay, I don't claim that Spock and Kirk or anyone else is secretly gay, but I do sometimes take a subtext "slash" view of characters. Gay male characters are still very rare in Sci Fi/fantasty, and Abrams continued to promote a hetero only vision of Star Trek in his second movie, which is disapointing, since there was time to show Kirk having a threeway with two alien women. I started seeing Kirk and Spock with a "slash" subtext back when I was a kid and there were no positive gay images anywhere. If you need a role model and it doesn't exist, in the media or real life, it's understandable that I (and other people) will create one. So I won't apologize for seeing Kirk and Spock as honorary gays, back from a time when I needed that. Sometimes I still need that.

 

[DS9Continuing]

I'm not sure I agree that Sci-Fi/Fantasy is short of gay male characters, at least not the current version. Certainly that was obviously the case in the time of the original Kirk and Spock, and certainly televised/filmed Star Trek of all eras has been woefully inadequate in that area.

But these days a lot of other sci-fi/fantasy shows have LGBT characters of one stripe or another. In fact, I'd say SFF shows are further along the curve than most other genres. You've got your Teen Wolf, your Torchwood, Battlestar, Dr Who, Buffy, Warehouse 13, True Blood...

You're probably right that the 'titilating faux-lesbians are fine, gay men are too much' thing is still around, although even that is growing lesser.

The slash thing sometimes gets out of hand these days, to my mind. I hate the whole Tumblr generation thing, where fans have the impression they own the characters and can pair them up in whatever combinations they like, whether it makes any kind of logical sense or not, and actually get angry and threatening when the producers don't adhere to their vision, however non-sensical. I can understand it when there was nothing explicit and you had to grab onto anything implicit and ride it into the ground, but that's not the case these days. Now there are gay characters to enjoy and root for, and you don't have to force non-gay characters into gay situations just so you have something to identify with. Some people are actually straight.

/endrant

.

 

[borgboy]

I'm not sure I agree that Sci-Fi/Fantasy is short of gay male characters, at least not the current version. Certainly that was obviously the case in the time of the original Kirk and Spock, and certainly televised/filmed Star Trek of all eras has been woefully inadequate in that area.

But these days a lot of other sci-fi/fantasy shows have LGBT characters of one stripe or another. In fact, I'd say SFF shows are further along the curve than most other genres. You've got your Teen Wolf, your Torchwood, Battlestar, Dr Who, Buffy, Warehouse 13, True Blood...

You're probably right that the 'titilating faux-lesbians are fine, gay men are too much' thing is still around, although even that is growing lesser.

The slash thing sometimes gets out of hand these days, to my mind. I hate the whole Tumblr generation thing, where fans have the impression they own the characters and can pair them up in whatever combinations they like, whether it makes any kind of logical sense or not, and actually get angry and threatening when the producers don't adhere to their vision, however non-sensical. I can understand it when there was nothing explicit and you had to grab onto anything implicit and ride it into the ground, but that's not the case these days. Now there are gay characters to enjoy and root for, and you don't have to force non-gay characters into gay situations just so you have something to identify with. Some people are actually straight.

/endrant

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Yes, things are better. But as far as gay male characters go they're still pretty rare in sci fi. I have absolutely no expectation that Kirk and Spock, or any of the main original characters, are going to be gay. I will slash, but I don't expect tptb to follow my vision. Just fair diversity is all I expect. I'm not really familiar with anyone taking things so far as to get threatening, but then I don't use Tumblr so I'm not familiar with what goes on there.

 

[Cara007]

As far as implying characters are secretly gay, I don't claim that Spock and Kirk or anyone else is secretly gay, but I do sometimes take a subtext "slash" view of characters. Gay male characters are still very rare in Sci Fi/fantasty, and Abrams continued to promote a hetero only vision of Star Trek in his second movie, which is disapointing, since there was time to show Kirk having a threeway with two alien women. I started seeing Kirk and Spock with a "slash" subtext back when I was a kid and there were no positive gay images anywhere. If you need a role model and it doesn't exist, in the media or real life, it's understandable that I (and other people) will create one. So I won't apologize for seeing Kirk and Spock as honorary gays, back from a time when I needed that. Sometimes I still need that.

I need to put a heading for this.

Slash fiction, female characters and the LGBT community.

First of all slash pairings and Gay pairings are not the same thing. Slash pairing is loved and written by women and women alone. LGBT is loved by men and women. To compare both pairings is an insult to the LGBT community.

The female sexuality is subject to different things and one of the things that turn a lot of women on is to see the guys regardless of their sexual orientation go at it.

I personally hate slash fan fiction because it is anti women. LGBT people are not anti women. Slash fan fiction is written by girls and girls only. In most of the slash fiction story the female characters is written as a bitch and a whore.

They write the female character like that because it makes it easier for the male character to leave her and get it on with his male best friend despite the fact that in the actual canon series this male and female have a very living relationship. So yes another reason to hate slash. It is very Out of Character for both the male and female characters.

I find it mind blowing that a lot of these girls rather see the guy they like enter into a homosexual relationship with his best friend than see him with another girl. Please how does this help the LGBT community? All it does is falsely prove that the heterosexual paring is always going to be where the real and true love lies which is why the female fans are threatened by it and whey they are so desperate to see it end.

Its simple. If this man can not love me as a girl then he should not be allowed to love any other girl (jealousy). This is the why women love slash. One female slash fan on Tumblr who goes by the name onewomanstarfleet admitted that she was a bit jealous that Spock was with Uhura in Abrams Trek universe.

Please tell me again how this help LGBT people knowing that the only reason why many women are so into slash is out of jealousy for the female characters and the quest to see their sexual fantasy of the two guys having sex is the reason why the love slash fanfics so much.

To make Kirk and Spock gay will be equivalent of making James bond gay with no bond girls or having bond girls just to then put James bond in a Sexual relationship with M or Q. To make Kirk and Spock gay will be to change a lot of Trek’s history and certain aspects of their characters. For Instance:

1. No more Trek Novels like yesterday’s son with Spock and Zarebeth son.

2. No more Trek Episode like the Side of Paradise with Spock/Leia

3. A very well done romance like Spock/Uhura from the 2009 film will not be part of any Trek films again.

4. The concept of Pon Farr and the Vulcan mating ritual where a Vulcan male must find a female Vulcan, gets bonded and mate with her will no longer be major part of Spock’s character. Which means no more episodes like Amok Time with Spock/T-Pring/Stonn

5. Kirk been the love them and leave them type like James Bond will no longer be part of his character

6. Kirk also showing that despite all his man swag that swoons women. He can actually care and potentially love a formidable and strong women like Carol Marcus will also no longer be in his character.

This lists goes on

This is what will happen when girls and girls only try to turn Kirk and Spock into gays. You end up destroying some of the most essential attributes of their characters an attribute that women have always played a major part in. I don’t think the majority of Trek fans including myself ever wanta to see that.

A lot of the time Female fans don't t care about LGBT. It’s all a sham. Please go to the Harry Potter fandoms there are more fan fictions of Harry/Draco as a slash couple than of Dumbledore/Gilderward who are the actual gay couple in the canon universe.

Which leads me to ask why? If these girls claim they care so much that LGBT community been represented well in society, why not champion for the actual gay couple that that author has established and write more loving stories about them?

But nooooooo , they would never do that because Dumbledore is so old and fragile. Harry and Draco on the other hand are young, hot and gorgeous so its only best their female fans start slashing them. Lets all forget about Harry's wife Ginny. she is just a bitch who has been obsessed about Harry since she was a kid. Harry does not love her. he loves Draco. that is why he and Draco fight all the time.

Am serious, this is how most slash female fans think and act. they hate the female character because she is with the guy in the actual canon universe.

Why write the male straight characters as gays when we all know that in reality the author or creator of the show or novel has no intention of doing such things. You don't help LGBT people by giving them false hopes about the male characters based on your sex dreams.

I find it also mind blowing and very hypocritical that female slash writers have no issue with disrespecting the female characters by having the male characters dump them for other men but yet in their own personal real lives they will passionately hate it if their own husband or boyfriends female friends tells him to leaves them for his male best friend.

In fact these female slash writers will never speak to this women again and demand that her husband stop been friends with her because she is poisoning their marriage.

If these female fans want to see LGBT people on Trek, They need to write a letter to the Bob Orci, CBS, IDW and Paramount and request that Trek should have brand new characters in the novels, films, future TV series and comics that are gay and gay only.

There is no need to turn established straight characters like Kirk/Spock/Mccoy or Sulu/Chekov into gays at the expense of the female characters. That is just as disrespectful as forcing gay people to be straight.

To see subtext is in the eye of the beholder. I do however find it sad that girls are so willing to turn and read every guy and guy friendship as something sexual. Not everything equates to sex.

Why can’t two guys be best friends anymore without their female fans insisting they need to start having sex. It does not say much on the intellect of many of their female fans.

 

[Christopher]

You're probably right that the 'titilating faux-lesbians are fine, gay men are too much' thing is still around, although even that is growing lesser.

I get the impression that many female fans find gay male relationships just as titillating as many male fans (and sometimes female fans too) find lesbian ones. And I'm not sure what constitutes "faux" in this context. I think there's a perception that lesbians who don't fit a "butch" stereotype aren't "real" lesbians, but that's as nonsensical as assuming that all gay men are effeminate.

I hate the whole Tumblr generation thing, where fans have the impression they own the characters and can pair them up in whatever combinations they like, whether it makes any kind of logical sense or not, and actually get angry and threatening when the producers don't adhere to their vision, however non-sensical.

That sort of thing was around long before the Internet; it's just propagated more publicly these days.

I can understand it when there was nothing explicit and you had to grab onto anything implicit and ride it into the ground, but that's not the case these days. Now there are gay characters to enjoy and root for, and you don't have to force non-gay characters into gay situations just so you have something to identify with.

Yeah, but you can find the same kind of irrational and counterfactual fan reactions about plenty of other aspects of a show. Like that guy who used to post here who thought that all Star Trek should be about battles and violence and explosions, and that any mention of diversity or inclusion was a contamination of what it should be, even though that's pretty much the complete opposite of what anyone with eyes and ears should be able to take away from watching ST. I mean, there are plenty of examples of military science fiction out there, and unfortunately there are plenty of works of fiction out there that aren't much for inclusion, but he wanted those things in ST itself, as counterintuitive as that seems.

 

[borgboy]

There's a lot of generalization in the above post.
People write fan fiction, slash and otherwise, to express their own vision of the stories they love.
I am a gay, and I read slash. I don't find it at all offensive, and I'd say most people that write slash - male and female - are pro gay.
As for Harry Potter fan fiction, which I've never read, Harry is the lead. It's reasonable that people want to read and write about Harry. Honestly, I'm gay and I'd rather read fan fiction about Harry than ancient Dumbledore. I thought there was a fair amount of subtext/slashiness in the HP movies.
I don't know that Kirk and Spock fan fiction disrespects Uhura any more than Spock and Chapel. They're fictional characters. Uhura can deal with it.
A big motivation for slash is the desire to see gay people in those lead roles. It's not as if there's a lot of gay male leads in sci fi.
I am a bit put out to see this argument that slash is insulting to gays. What is insulting is to be pretend we don't exist, keep us invisible and marginalized. When well written, it's a tribute in my opinion. Slash gave me a place to read about gay characters in genre at a time when there wasn't "legitimate" places to do that. Those early slash writers gave me a place in the Star Trek world when nobody else did. There are good and bad fan fiction, of course. Some professional authors got their start writing fan fiction.
If you don't like it, don't read it.

 

[Cara007]

There's a lot of generalization in the above post.
People write fan fiction, slash and otherwise, to express their own vision of the stories they love.
I am a gay, and I read slash. I don't find it at all offensive, and I'd say most people that write slash - male and female - are pro gay.
As for Harry Potter fan fiction, which I've never read, Harry is the lead. It's reasonable that people want to read and write about Harry. Honestly, I'm gay and I'd rather read fan fiction about Harry than ancient Dumbledore. I thought there was a fair amount of subtext/slashiness in the HP movies.
I don't know that Kirk and Spock fan fiction disrespects Uhura any more than Spock and Chapel. They're fictional characters. Uhura can deal with it.
A big motivation for slash is the desire to see gay people in those lead roles. It's not as if there's a lot of gay male leads in sci fi.
I am a bit put out to see this argument that slash is insulting to gays. What is insulting is to be pretend we don't exist, keep us invisible and marginalized. When well written, it's a tribute in my opinion. Slash gave me a place to read about gay characters in genre at a time when there wasn't "legitimate" places to do that. Those early slash writers gave me a place in the Star Trek world when nobody else did. There are good and bad fan fiction, of course. Some professional authors got their start writing fan fiction.
If you don't like it, don't read it.

If you are gay then I hope you enjoy fics of the actual gay loving couple like Willow/Tera from Buffy instead if Buffy/Willow or Angel/Spike.

Willow/Tera were the best lesbian couple on TV EVER. It made me wish that Joss Wheedon will write Star Trek. the man can write great love story for both heterosexual and homosexual couples.

Wilow even said it herself that she was done with men. So she is not disrespecting any of the men on the TV show unlike what slash does all the time. Disrespect the female and that is something as a straight person I HATE.

When I said Slash is insulting to gays what I meant is that the concept of slash is driven by the female sexual fantasy of guy on guy sex. this is what turns women on.

For me personally , its insulting to gays because been gay is not a sex dream for women. gay people say it themselves that they are in love and want a life together. it is not just sex.

Gay people do not intentional break up a loving heterosexual couples when they know the couple truly love each other. slash breaks up the loving heterosexual couples and turn the characters to what they are not and to what if the tables where turned, the gay person would not want to be.



Yes, I don't like it so I don't read it. However I don't disrespect anyone and what they ship. so why are the slash fan writers constantly disrespecting the female characters, the people I love to read about. Also again its hard not to not read it.

many of the slash writers will deliberately tag slash fiction in the heterosexual parings fan fiction and not even have the decency and honesty to tells is what their fanfic is really all about.

Its not fair to ether of the heterosexual or same sex couples or me or you who love different things.

 

[Mimi]

Now, in my day I have complained plenty about shippers and tumblr. I completely agree, the place can be a cesspool. The obsession over who is romancing who can be a burden to any fandom or couple, straight or gay.

But I wouldn't be so quick to say that slash fans 'hate women', and especially the LGBT community. Most slashers do not believe their pairing is canon. Many of them just see it as a creative outlet. Many of them completely and wholly support the LGBT community, and see their work as providing more media to that community. [Whether they want it, of course, is the subject for another debate.]

Furthermore, the behavior you are talking about is typically only present in a very specific age bracket. Teens-early twenties. The age where you write crazy things on the internet, but eventually, you grow out of it. I highly doubt any 'horrible tumblr girl' goes on living her life hating women and dying for her gay pairings.

There's a reason why lesbianism is more culturally accepted than gay relationships. And it has a lot to do with straight men. I'd like to think that all of this is apart of a cultural shift into accepting more gay men into active roles.

Are there some crazy factions? Sure, but I think I could broadly generalize trek fans in about as demeaning a way as possible too. The crazy people are not the majority, they just make the loudest noise.

Many of the slash writers will deliberately tag slash fiction in the heterosexual parings fan fiction and not even have the decency and honesty to tells is what their fanfic is really all about.

And while this might not be your intention, this post makes me assume this entire tirade is the result of having accidentally been 'tricked' into reading gay fanfiction.

 

[Christopher]

There's a lot of generalization in the above post.

I assume you mean Cara007's post, rather than my post which I evidently added while you were writing your response?

I agree with Mimi on this issue. Any fandom or faction or philosophy has its share of extremists and jerks who give it a bad name, but they shouldn't be assumed to be typical of the whole no matter how much they try to act as if they are.

 

[DS9Continuing]

You're probably right that the 'titilating faux-lesbians are fine, gay men are too much' thing is still around, although even that is growing lesser.

I get the impression that many female fans find gay male relationships just as titillating as many male fans (and sometimes female fans too) find lesbian ones. And I'm not sure what constitutes "faux" in this context. I think there's a perception that lesbians who don't fit a "butch" stereotype aren't "real" lesbians, but that's as nonsensical as assuming that all gay men are effeminate.

Oh yes, absolutely. A lot of the 'shipping' for Supernatural or Teen Wolf pairings and the like is driven by women. And yes, some women find two men together just as hot as some men find two women together. That's understandable, I suppose.

By 'faux' I meant that the supposed lesbians are only doing 'lesbian' things to tittillate the men, and once the men are sufficiently tittillated, they'll stop being lesbian and go back to the men. The perfect example is in Buffy's 'Restless' - compare the make-up-and-lingerie kissing between Willow and Tara in Xander's dream to the far more romantic and genuine moments in Willow's own.

And the same now happens for men - now that society accepts that women can actually have fantasies and sex drives, male characters become the targets of women viewers' fantasies. I can understand Cara's frustration - we do not exist simply for your entertainment - even if her vehemence is somewhat startling.

I hate the whole Tumblr generation thing, where fans have the impression they own the characters and can pair them up in whatever combinations they like, whether it makes any kind of logical sense or not, and actually get angry and threatening when the producers don't adhere to their vision, however non-sensical.

That sort of thing was around long before the Internet; it's just propagated more publicly these days.

And that's the most terrifying part. I know all the insanity over One Direction is only the same as happened with Elvis or The Beatles or Take That, but it seems so much more intense and extreme now, and that's because it's so much more immediate. Maybe that intensity has its good side. One would certainly hope that all this enthusiasm for same-sex pairings in their entertainment - TV, film, music, whatever - translates to a willingness to accept same-sex relationships in real life as well. I guess that's not guaranteed, though.

.

 

[Cara007]

You're probably right that the 'titilating faux-lesbians are fine, gay men are too much' thing is still around, although even that is growing lesser.

I get the impression that many female fans find gay male relationships just as titillating as many male fans (and sometimes female fans too) find lesbian ones. And I'm not sure what constitutes "faux" in this context. I think there's a perception that lesbians who don't fit a "butch" stereotype aren't "real" lesbians, but that's as nonsensical as assuming that all gay men are effeminate.

Oh yes, absolutely. A lot of the 'shipping' for Supernatural or Teen Wolf pairings and the like is driven by women. And yes, some women find two men together just as hot as some men find two women together. That's understandable, I suppose.

By 'faux' I meant that the supposed lesbians are only doing 'lesbian' things to tittillate the men, and once the men are sufficiently tittillated, they'll stop being lesbian and go back to the men. The perfect example is in Buffy's 'Restless' - compare the make-up-and-lingerie kissing between Willow and Tara in Xander's dream to the far more romantic and genuine moments in Willow's own.

And the same now happens for men - now that society accepts that women can actually have fantasies and sex drives, male characters become the targets of women viewers' fantasies. I can understand Cara's frustration - we do not exist simply for your entertainment - even if her vehemence is somewhat startling.

I hate the whole Tumblr generation thing, where fans have the impression they own the characters and can pair them up in whatever combinations they like, whether it makes any kind of logical sense or not, and actually get angry and threatening when the producers don't adhere to their vision, however non-sensical.

That sort of thing was around long before the Internet; it's just propagated more publicly these days.

And that's the most terrifying part. I know all the insanity over One Direction is only the same as happened with Elvis or The Beatles or Take That, but it seems so much more intense and extreme now, and that's because it's so much more immediate. Maybe that intensity has its good side. One would certainly hope that all this enthusiasm for same-sex pairings in their entertainment - TV, film, music, whatever - translates to a willingness to accept same-sex relationships in real life as well. I guess that's not guaranteed, though.

.

Speaking of one direction. Are you aware that there are some people called Larry shippers. They ship larry and harry as a gay couple and they send threatening messages to their girlfriends.

Larry and Harry have said they are not gay and are just good and loving friends but this is not okay for their female fans. They are still pushing and begging them to leave their girlfriends and get together.

Of course not all the fans are like that but there are a lot of them like that and they exist in Trek.

This is where my sadness and annoyance is with the slash fanfictions and their fans in general. Please I hope people know that slash is not the same thing as a gay pairings.

 

[Mimi]

Again, by a large majority, you are dealing with young people in that scenario. While its true the behavior is unacceptable, I hardly believe that translates into an accurate representation of that particular community. Nor would I say that the sensational fringe contains only women.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Well, I actually think Louis and Harry are a couple, but yeah, threatening messages is obviously going too far.

http://thebacklot.tumblr.com/post/65433531004/niall-and-liams-reactions-are-prize-winning

http://thebacklot.tumblr.com/post/65438297876/a-shipper-life

If they're saying they'll commit suicide over being portrayed as crazy in a TV documentary, well then they're only proving the point.

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