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Let's talk about justice (not the episode)

A

Abi Smith

Commander
Red Shirt
In ENT you are sent to a fairly comfortable cell with abundant amounts of writing paper (Borderland).
In TOS you are sent to a remote rehabilitation center (Dagger of the Mind, Whom Gods Destroy).
But by VOY you will wear a gray jumpsuit and an ankle monitor then forced to perform labor (Caretaker).
What happened to the progressive justice of the Federation?

'The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.'
-Fyodor Dostoevsky
 
What's wrong with having criminals be punished in a penal institution?

In the case of Dagger of the Mind that was a (badly run) hospital and not a prison for criminals. In Whom Gods Destroy the criminals (in a facility for the criminally insane) managed to take over the facility.

Tom Paris did join a criminal organization that was trying to restart a war that had already taken millions of lives, good for Tom, let's just let him go.
 
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Give the option of the three, I would have picked the penal colony easily. It didn't look like whatever Tommy was doing was too labor-intensive. But fresh air.
 
In Discovery you get sentenced to serve your time in a dilithium mine but instead get to swan around on the finest star ship in the Fleet going on all the away missions and making vital decisions. You then get a medal.
 
Abi Smith said:
In ENT you are sent to a fairly comfortable cell with abundant amounts of writing paper (Borderland).
In TOS you are sent to a remote rehabilitation center (Dagger of the Mind, Whom Gods Destroy).
But by VOY you will wear a gray jumpsuit and an ankle monitor then forced to perform labor (Caretaker).
What happened to the progressive justice of the Federation?

'The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.'
-Fyodor Dostoevsky
Click to expand...

And in Discovery, they were sending prisoners to the mines.

I don't think Tom was forced to perform labour in New Zealand, he was just given busy work to keep him occupied. He and Soong two hundred years earlier were punished by being isolated from society, with fewer creature comforts. Their crimes were not of the quality that required mental reconditioning.
 
Refuge said:
In Discovery you get sentenced to serve your time in a dilithium mine but instead get to swan around on the finest star ship in the Fleet going on all the away missions and making vital decisions. You then get a medal.
Click to expand...
Well that’s what happened to Tom, sort of.
Besides it was most likely Lorca who arranged all that
 
I thought on Voyager the labor was voluntary? Lon Suder for instance, he strongly volunteered for work.

I don't know about justice but the crew all tried to understand what made that guy commit his crime, they did their best.
 
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Makarov said:
I thought on Voyager the labor was voluntary? Lon Suder for instance, he strongly volunteered for work.

I don't know about justice but the crew all tried to understand what made that guy commit his crime, they did their best.
Click to expand...

In Suder's case the options were permanent confinement to quarters or execution.
Confinement was chosen as execution seemed a bit much.
 
Abi Smith said:
In Suder's case the options were permanent confinement to quarters or execution.
Confinement was chosen as execution seemed a bit much.
Click to expand...

They probably could've dropped him off somewhere, a la Resolutions, or stick him in one of the stasis tubes for the duration of the trip. Giving a serial killer cabin fever doesn't seem very rehabilitative.
 
^Not sure execution was really an option by Federation rules. Tuvok and Suder wanted it, yes, but Suder felt he could only find piece in that way and Tuvok only felt so after a mind meld with Suder.


Abi Smith said:
In ENT you are sent to a fairly comfortable cell with abundant amounts of writing paper (Borderland).
In TOS you are sent to a remote rehabilitation center (Dagger of the Mind, Whom Gods Destroy).
But by VOY you will wear a gray jumpsuit and an ankle monitor then forced to perform labor (Caretaker).
What happened to the progressive justice of the Federation?

'The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.'
-Fyodor Dostoevsky
Click to expand...

Always got the distinct impression that Tom's sentence wasn't too long-term and meant to be rehabilitative. Don't think the same would be true for Soong- when Archer visited him he had been in prison for 10 years and it didn't seem like they were about to release him soon, hadn't Archer come along. He might have been locked inside a cell precisely because he was considered too dangerous to do work in a more outside environment, much like the differences between today's maximum security prisons and prisons that are graded lower on that scale.

Also as far as Soong goes: " Of course, none of this will ever be tested. They clear out my room every few months. I'm told it all gets vaporised. " , so I doubt he had much job satisfaction.
 
Tim Thomason said:
They probably could've dropped him off somewhere, a la Resolutions, or stick him in one of the stasis tubes for the duration of the trip. Giving a serial killer cabin fever doesn't seem very rehabilitative.
Click to expand...

Dropping Suder (played by the always great Brad Dourif) couldn't be an option. What if some friendly aliens rescued him from his one man penal colony and he then proceeded to brutally murder them because they looked at him funny. Voyager would have blood on their hands.
 
The penal colony Tom was at seemed pretty comfy. It's always implied in the Berman era show that a Federation prison is a gilded cage. A comfy place you just can't leave.
 
at Quark's said:
Always got the distinct impression that Tom's sentence wasn't too long-term and meant to be rehabilitative. Don't think the same would be true for Soong- when Archer visited him he had been in prison for 10 years and it didn't seem like they were about to release him soon, hadn't Archer come along. He might have been locked inside a cell precisely because he was considered too dangerous to do work in a more outside environment, much like the differences between today's maximum security prisons and prisons that are graded lower on that scale.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Tom would have been released after a few months anyway, as indicated in Non Sequitor.

Dr. Soong was being held in a Starfleet prison, or in other words a military prison (ooh, I know, I said a dirty word). His conditions aren't really indicative of typical 22nd century penal standards.

Though Starfleet apparently stopped having prisons in the 23rd century, given Michael Burnham does her time at civilian prisons, though still wears a Starfleet issue prison jumpsuit.
 
Refuge said:
In Discovery you get sentenced to serve your time in a dilithium mine but instead get to swan around on the finest star ship in the Fleet going on all the away missions and making vital decisions. You then get a medal.
Click to expand...
Only if you catch the eye of a certain Captain.
 
There's no evidence that any other prisoners get worse treatment than Tom. Almost everyone we saw get arrested in the show made cracks about it. Also I remember a few cases of "You can go to a Klingon prison or a Federation one" or "Cardassian labor camps aren't like your fancy Federation prison!"
 
JirinPanthosa said:
There's no evidence that any other prisoners get worse treatment than Tom. Almost everyone we saw get arrested in the show made cracks about it. Also I remember a few cases of "You can go to a Klingon prison or a Federation one" or "Cardassian labor camps aren't like your fancy Federation prison!"
Click to expand...

in Broken Link Garak gets 6 months in confinement , that doesnt sound enjoyable. though he doesn't seem to disappointed.
 
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