Let's speculate on the deep, dark secret

[El Maestro]

What could the deep, dark secret that Jurati mentioned in ep 5 be? It seems like it would need to be bigger than the truth of the synth attack on Mars, and more related to the reasoning behind it. Even connecting it to the Romulan supernova seems too small if she's willing to kill over it, albeit reluctantly.

Some people here in other threads and elsewhere online have talked about how maybe it's that the Romulans created the Borg, or that either the Vulcans and/or Romulans were/are artificial life. These ideas would be bombshells to be sure, but the implications surrounding the Zhat Vash and the way Oh and others talk it seems that whatever is going on would pose an existential threat to the Federation and who knows what else. So what could it be?

 

[Gepard]

That Maddox did, in fact, replicate those cookies.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I was just speculating on this in the episode thread, but it strikes me that as it would involve synths, Jurati might be more affected by whatever this secret is than the next person. As that's her life's work, and she worked with the man who created the synth that everyone is after, she might feel more personally responsible for the situation.

 

[El Maestro]

I was just speculating on this in the episode thread, but it strikes me that as it would involve synths, Jurati might be more affected by whatever this secret is than the next person. As that's her life's work, and she worked with the man who created the synth that everyone is after, she might feel more personally responsible for the situation.

This makes sense! I just keep trying to figure out what could be SO earth(or other planet)-shattering that she would turn like that. Because she wasn't mustache-twirling evil. She was conflicted and riddled with guilt (well played by Allison Pill!). Is it a Founders kind of thing where synths could be/are replacing people and influencing things? But then why the heavy Borg connection?

 

[Hythlodeus]

Soong's work was based on Borg technology and therefore every Synth created by the Daystrom Institue is secretly a Borg

 

[El Maestro]

Soong's work was based on Borg technology and therefore every Synth created by the Daystrom Institue is secretly a Borg

Trojan horse Borg! Maybe that's how Lore was able to do what he did in Descent? Or maybe somehow the Borg found a way to create artificial life that can pass as organic and are up to this for some reason? Hard to imagine what they'd gain from it though.

 

[Dukhat]

My money is on the Vulcans creating the Romulans a la Cylons.

 

[El Maestro]

My money is on the Vulcans creating the Romulans a la Cylons.

That......could kind of be cool? Romulans as Vulcan skinjobs would certainly be a huge bombshell. But then the Zhat Vash would be kind of self loathing, no? Unless their programming makes them hostile to artificial life and they don't know why (especially since it doesn't seem that the Romulans know they're not organic, if this theory is true).

 

[Blue Squadron]

I agree -- they seem to be setting this up to be something of a big conspiracy and/or cover-up; both with a long-view historical context and in relation to whatever happened around the events on Mars and whatever is happening with the synth-hunting and potential Romulan-Starfleet interaction in the contemporary frame.

They've established the Zhat Vash with a very long and apparently sinister history in the undercurrents of Romulan culture and it certainly seems there's more to know on that front. We have no idea what precipitated their supposedly extreme position but, at face value, it must have been something pretty significant if they have persisted in their vehemence over some considerable number of generations.

I still haven't decided what I think might be going on in terms of the wheels-within-wheels where Starfleet Security, Commodore Oh and the Romulans (or at least some Romulans) are concerned. I'm not sure who knows what, who's playing who, who's running who, who thinks they're running who, and what the underlying agendas really are.

Overall, however, I really hope it's NOT the origins the effing Borg. Pretty much anything but that. There are some very established and creative writers involved with this show, so I'm really hoping that if there IS a big, deep secret then it's going to be something very clever and unexpected -- but which somehow makes sense in the history of the franchise, rather then just some weird shit that they parachute in at the last minute from absolutely nowhere.

 

[El Maestro]

Overall, however, I really hope it's NOT the origins the effing Borg. Pretty much anything but that. There are some very established and creative writers involved with this show, so I'm really hoping that if there IS a big, deep secret then it's going to be something very clever and unexpected -- but which somehow makes sense in the history of the franchise, rather then just some weird shit that they parachute in at the last minute from absolutely nowhere.

I wouldn't mind an origins-of-the-Borg bombshell if it truly had gravity and impact. If the Romulans created the Borg then that would an interesting piece of trivia to know but aside from people being really mad at them for it I'm not sure how the fact being "out" changes the dynamics of the galaxy in 2399, especially since the Romulans appear to be pretty fractured and while not powerless they don't seem to be a big player in galactic affairs.

Maybe the Romulans did create the Borg, cast them out to the Delta quadrant millennia ago, and they came back to bring order to their chaotic creators or something and caused the supernova? This wouldn't explain why the Federation or at least some people in it seem willing to help the Romulans keep the secret.

 

[Dukhat]

That......could kind of be cool? Romulans as Vulcan skinjobs would certainly be a huge bombshell. But then the Zhat Vash would be kind of self loathing, no? Unless their programming makes them hostile to artificial life and they don't know why (especially since it doesn't seem that the Romulans know they're not organic, if this theory is true).

That would depend on how old the Zhat Vash is. If it was around during the time of the great exodus 2,000 years before, then it originated on Vulcan with Vulcans.

 

[El Maestro]

What if the Romulans were created by the Vulcans and the Borg were the first, failed attempt?

 

[Hythlodeus]

What if the Romulans were created by the Vulcans and the Borg were the first, failed attempt?

Why would Agnes react to that the way she did?

 

[El Maestro]

Why would Agnes react to that the way she did?

The only thing I can think of is that somehow the skinjobs are going to be used for something pretty big/cataclysmic. What? No idea.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Vulcans are perfect synths?

The Romulans created the Borg?

The Romulans blew up their own sun and sabotaged the rescue efforts because they're THAT self loathing?

 

[El Maestro]

Yeah I just can’t come up with anything that connects the dots. Especially when you add in the self loathing Romulans and to cooperating Federation. Doesn’t seem to make sense. Unless it’s a TUC situation and people in the Federation can’t let go of the status quo.

 

[DaveyNY]

What if the process Maddox used involves using a Living Being?
Think "Frankenstein" but instead of dead body parts, one has to start with an alive host.

Just like the Borg do.

 

[Tarek71]

The Borg ship being captured, the synth attack and the Romulan supernova all being from 14 years ago is not a coincidence. Somehow the Borg, Romulans and Synths are connected. Maddox presumably having some knowledge of what that connection 14 years ago was, which includes him and his work. They spent some time on mythology. Something Soji was getting at is in there as well. And there are high ranking Starfleet personnel playing a part in this. Commodore Oh likely involved.

Given how far back the Borg go and their base in the Delta Quadrant, invention by the Romulans seems like a stretch. However if some were willing to sabotage the Romulan rescue mission, dooming many more Romulans to death, it's possible that the supernova itself was not an accident or a naturally occuring event. The "Destroyer" of worlds could mean the deliberate sabotage and destruction of the Romulan star.

 

[Lord Garth]

Here we go...

Spoiler

On the planet Vulcan, there were people who wanted to develop Cyborgs. Those people were banned from Vulcan. They were the ancestors of the Romulans. The people who stayed on Vulcan were still passionate and war-like until Surak came along and taught them the True Way. Meanwhile the Romulans discovered what was wrong with developing Cyborgs but by then it was too late. The Proto-Borg escaped to the Delta Quadrant.

The Romulans then spent the next several centuries trying to develop a Quantum Singularity Drive. In hopes of being able to use it to eventually fight the Borg in the Delta Quadrant once they perfected it.

The Borg had intended to fight the Romulans when they attacked System J-25 in "The Neutral Zone" (TNG), but then shifted their focus to the Federation when it caught their eye in "Q Who?" (TNG). The Romulans then sat back and watched the Federation fight the Borg while gaining intelligence, so they could size up the Borg and how far they'd progressed from afar.

The Federation seemed to be able to handle the Borg but then they wanted to develop Synths. The Romulans remembered their own experiences and didn't want to deal with a second race like the Borg. So they manipulated the Synths to attack Mars so the Federation would ban all Synths.

Would that be the end of Romulus? Only if the Romulans didn't have another plan to save themselves. Most of them did survive. And with a weakened Romulan government, that allows the Zhat Vash to use the Tal'Shiar to take more direct control. But the Tal'Shiar wouldn't be welcome with free arms, so they orchestrated for a new type of government to be formed and the Romulan Star Empire was replaced with the Romulan Free State. Where leadership didn't change with coups. Where the government wouldn't radically alter from one administration to the next. Making the Romulan Free State more predictable than the Romulan Star Empire ever was.

They struck gold when they found the abandoned Borg Cube. Now they can do all the research they want on their creation.

And by infiltrating the Federation, they have control over their other greatest enemy.

So now: they have a more stable government, even though it was at the cost of Romulus, they're manipulating the Federation to their whims, and they've gained invaluable data on the Borg. Win, win, win.

That's my crackpot conspiracy theory. This post never happened.

 

[MrPointy]

Maybe the Zhat Vash know about Control.